Artillery At Stones River

[Hoplite]

Reading the newest book on Stones River, and I was surprised to see the breakdown of Union artillery types.
The majority were 10lb Parrots, followed by old 6-pdrs.
There were only a dozen Napoleons and 6- 3inch rifles in the inventory.

 

[Stryker65]

By June, 1863, the breakdown was similar, with the majority of Union cannons being 6-lb or 12-lb guns.

 

[Belfoured]

Reading the newest book on Stones River, and I was surprised to see the breakdown of Union artillery types.
The majority were 10lb Parrots, followed by old 6-pdrs.
There were only a dozen Napoleons and 6- 3inch rifles in the inventory.

It's good to keep in mind that scale production of the M1857 Napoleon and the 3" Ordnance Rifle really only got underway with the start of the war. The Ordnance Dep't priority apparently was outfitting the Army of the Potomac, so by mid-1862 that army was almost entirely armed with Napoleons, Ordnance Rifles, supplemented with 10 lb Parrotts (2.9" bore), as well as a few of the relatively useless 20 lb Parrotts. The western armies were still something of a "hodge podge", although that was changing. (The 10 lb Parrotts did begin production in May 1861 and many went to the states.) IIRC less than 200 Napoleons were turned out in 1861. Until the war there were only four in service.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

Reading the newest book on Stones River, and I was surprised to see the breakdown of Union artillery types.
The majority were 10lb Parrots, followed by old 6-pdrs.
There were only a dozen Napoleons and 6- 3inch rifles in the inventory.

I have a part of a 3" sabot shot fired by a Union gun at the Battle of Stones River mounted on display, on my study wall. (I have been told what it is because I don't have the expertise to assess it.) The shot was legally dug circa 1990 by a member of CWT in the area between the Gresham house and the brick kiln near the Harding house.

 

[Belfoured]

I have a part of a 3" sabot shot fired by a Union gun at the Battle of Stones River mounted on display, on my study wall. (I have been told what it is because I don't have the expertise to assess it.) The shot was legally dug circa 1990 by a member of CWT in the area between the Gresham house and the brick kiln near the Harding house.

If it's from a Parrott, it should be 2.9" for that point of the war What's the description? If it's from a Read/Parrott it should be a metal ring of some kind.

 

[gjpratt]

Hmmm. I have a guess on the identity of the digger.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Reading the newest book on Stones River, and I was surprised to see the breakdown of Union artillery types.
The majority were 10lb Parrots, followed by old 6-pdrs.
There were only a dozen Napoleons and 6- 3inch rifles in the inventory.

Dont forget the Weird rifles & smoothbores, 12 pound 1841 model howitzers, Ames model one & two 14 pound rifles… I think that fills out the list.

In order to achieve some order in the artillery park, the wagons were painted to match the color coded ammunition boxes. It was obviously a logistical nightmare. Six months later, the newly created Army of the Cumberland's artillery consisted almost exclusively of 10 pound rifles & 12 pound Napoleons. Several batteries of Ames 14 pound rifles also participated in the Tullahoma Campaign.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

If it's from a Parrott, it should be 2.9" for that point of the war What's the description? If it's from a Read/Parrott it should be a metal ring of some kind.

It's just a fragment, about 2 1/4" long and 1 1/8" wide, and looks slightly curved like the side of a shell. It may or may not be worth removing it from the display case (it's displayed with a nice full case shot and a good cannister shot also from Stones River) to get a good photograph. I have very little expertise in artillery. (It has zero dollar value of course.)

 

[dlofting]

It's good to keep in mind that scale production of the M1857 Napoleon and the 3" Ordnance Rifle really only got underway with the start of the war. The Ordnance Dep't priority apparently was outfitting the Army of the Potomac, so by mid-1862 that army was almost entirely armed with Napoleons, Ordnance Rifles, supplemented with 10 lb Parrotts (2.9" bore), as well as a few of the relatively useless 20 lb Parrotts. The western armies were still something of a "hodge podge", although that was changing. (The 10 lb Parrotts did begin production in May 1861 and many went to the states.) IIRC less than 200 Napoleons were turned out in 1861. Until the war there were only four in service.

Just curious why the 20 lb Parrotts were somewhat useless. Do you mean generally speaking or at Stones River particularly ?

 

[Rhea Cole]

Just curious why the 20 lb Parrotts were somewhat useless. Do you mean generally speaking or at Stones River particularly ?

There were no 20 pound Parrott's at Stones River.

At Fortress Rosecrans there was a 20 pounder aimed at the Courthouse to threaten the locals.

There were also 8" field howitzers & 1841 six pounders.

Look at the size of the sponge rammer. It must really have been an adventure to fire one of those things… especially for #1 & #2!

 

[Belfoured]

Just curious why the 20 lb Parrotts were somewhat useless. Do you mean generally speaking or at Stones River particularly ?

I meant generally. They were effectively a "tweener" between a fully mobile field piece like the 10 lb and a piece intended more for siege work like the 4.5" Rifle. The tube was double the weight of the 10 lb tube and the prescribed team was 8 horses instead of 6, although that was pretty much ignored. I don't have any stats for 20 lbers but as Parrott calibers got larger there also was an increased tendency to fail - possibly related to the tube being cast iron but a reinforcing wrought iron breech wrap was affixed to it. This involved coiling a red hot bar around a mandrel and welded by a large trip hammer; reheating the welded bar; and affixing it to the tube, which was then rotated while the band cooled and contracted. Should have been a pretty solid fix but who knows. Henry Hunt disliked the 20 lb quite a bit.

 

[Belfoured]

It's just a fragment, about 2 1/4" long and 1 1/8" wide, and looks slightly curved like the side of a shell. It may or may not be worth removing it from the display case (it's displayed with a nice full case shot and a good cannister shot also from Stones River) to get a good photograph. I have very little expertise in artillery. (It has zero dollar value of course.)

Sounds like it might be from a Hotchkiss round, which were also fired by Parrotts. (Parrott converted the 10 lb from a 2.9" bore to 3" in 1863, to make it fully compatible the range of ordnance used by the Ordnance Rifle).

 

[Rhea Cole]

Sounds like it might be from a Hotchkiss round, which were also fired by Parrotts. (Parrott converted the 10 lb from a 2.9" bore to 3" in 1863, to make it fully compatible the range of ordnance used by the Ordnance Rifle).

Outwardly the only difference is 2.9" has a muzzle swell & the 3" does not.

 

[Rhea Cole]

During & after the war red legs complained about the mix of rounds for rifled artillery. Whatever advantage one or another may have had, gun laying was very much an intuitive skill.

Gunners who were accustomed to Parrott rounds were vexed with adapting to another design & back again. It all depended on what the artillery reserve had in stock.

I am not aware of there being any significant performance advantages one over the other. The simplicity of the Parrott bolt was certainly in its favor.

 

[Belfoured]

During & after the war red legs complained about the mix of rounds for rifled artillery. Whatever advantage one or another may have had, gun laying was very much an intuitive skill.

Gunners who were accustomed to Parrott rounds were vexed with adapting to another design & back again. It all depended on what the artillery reserve had in stock.

I am not aware of there being any significant performance advantages one over the other. The simplicity of the Parrott bolt was certainly in its favor.

I'm not aware of any objective assessment of the differences. That said, after the war Henry Hunt - who should know - wrote that one of the problems with rifled artillery was the variety of designs for projectiles and their different characteristics. He was also critical of the "feeble" 3" caliber. Thee is evidence that the Read/Parrott design was a problem for the Ordnance Rifle.

 

[Rhea Cole]

I'm not aware of any objective assessment of the differences. That said, after the war Henry Hunt - who should know - wrote that one of the problems with rifled artillery was the variety of designs for projectiles and their different characteristics. He was also critical of the "feeble" 3" caliber. Thee is evidence that the Read/Parrott design was a problem for the Ordnance Rifle.

A number of senior officers echoed Hunt's critique… of course he was the one who dumped on the 20 pounders. Once past that 800 pound barrel weight, the six horse motive power was inadequate.

It really is something to see WWII film of German draft horses struggling to move howitzers across the Russian steps. Don't know what Hunt would say about that ¿no?

 

[Hoplite]

By June, 1863, the breakdown was similar, with the majority of Union cannons being 6-lb or 12-lb guns.

I always just assumed that the Union had a significant advantage in artillery-the types and rifled and that 6pdrs were a thing of the past by then. I guess too much of me being Eastern-centric!

Does anyone have the breakdown of Bragg's artillery

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

I'm not surprised Bragg was still using 6-pdrs but I would have thought the main Union armies would have phased those out by Dec 1862, except maybe horse artillery.

Makes me wonder about the composition of Mendenhall's famous 57-58 gun assembly on Jan 2.

 

[Stryker65]

I always just assumed that the Union had a significant advantage in artillery-the types and rifled and that 6pdrs were a thing of the past by then. I guess too much of me being Eastern-centric!

Does anyone have the breakdown of Bragg's artillery

All artillery figures can be found in Larry J. Daniel's "Cannonneers in Gray: The Field Artillery of the Army of Tennessee". I'm not home right now but I'll look and see when I get back.

 

[Stryker65]

@Hoplite There's a Google Books preview I'm looking through right now. Some pages I can't see, but there's:
- Turner's MS Battery: 2 12-lb howitzers, 2 12-lb Napoleons
- Cobb's KY Battery: 2 6-lb guns and 2 12-lb howitzers
- Graves' KY Battery: 2 6-lb guns and 2 12-lb howitzers
- Eldridge's TN Battery: 2 6-lb guns and 2 12-lb howitzers
- Dure's GA Battery: 2 6-lb guns and 2 3-in rifles
Also: