Help Understanding CMSR for Independent Unit

[dfostermem]

I am trying to use CMSRs to validate lists I've found on Internet of members of Henderson's Scouts. When I pull up CMSRs associated with this unit, I'm coming up with a lot of names that were not on the Internet lists I have found. I'm afraid that I'm making some errors in my approach based on lack of knowledge about CMSRs in general.

What I'm doing is searching Fold3 using "Exchanged Battalion, CSA, O-Z AND Forrest's Scouts, CSA". The result contains several units associated with Forrest's Scouts. I then have been documenting those associated with Henderson's Scouts.

My main question is how accurate is CMSRs based solely on surrender in May 1865 with regard to the units they served in? If soldiers basically were included with a unit that they didn't serve with, does anyone have recommendations for sorting them out?

Since this unit served without pay, many of the soldiers have no pay records. Basically just the record of their surrender. Others have pay records where they received payment for forage. Does the lack of any pay record raise a flag that the soldier probably didn't serve with unit or was it common for soldiers to serve and have no pay record with these independent units?

Any insights/recommendations would be appreciated.

 

[dfostermem]

Besides the men of a cavalry unit... don't forget their horses! Here's something on Private McConnico of Kentucky, who says he rode with the Henderson Scouts...

View attachment 537189
Daily Picayune, New Orleans, 1-31-1909.

Biography of Florida State Senator Yancey, a veteran of Henderson's scouts...

View attachment 537191
Weekly Florida Times-Union, Jacksonville, FL, 5-16-1889.

McConnico is one of my problems. There is no pay related info on him which suggests he was not with Henderson's Scouts in 1863. He states he was in Vicksburg and implies he was with them there. In another place he states joining them in 1864. So there are conflicts. He was on the surrender rolls, so he was with the unit at the end of the war. Having said that, there is a possibility that there were some, if not many, that may have been with the unit who were not paid. The original concept was the soldiers wouldn't be paid except for rations and forage. There seems to be a concept that if you were near home, you wouldn't be paid at all. For McConnico, I think I need to find out when he left VMI, if possible. That would establish the earliest he could have been with Henderson's Scouts.

 

[TerryB]

I have a CDV of a Mr. Gates of Jackson, Tenn., who was a member of Henderson's Scouts, but his CSRs show quite a variety of units. I I find my file, I'll post it. He's in civvies.

 

[TerryB]

It's hard to read, but the writing says,"Mr. J.W. Gates."

 

[RedRover]

McConnico is one of my problems. There is no pay related info on him which suggests he was not with Henderson's Scouts in 1863. He states he was in Vicksburg and implies he was with them there. In another place he states joining them in 1864. So there are conflicts. He was on the surrender rolls, so he was with the unit at the end of the war. Having said that, there is a possibility that there were some, if not many, that may have been with the unit who were not paid. The original concept was the soldiers wouldn't be paid except for rations and forage. There seems to be a concept that if you were near home, you wouldn't be paid at all. For McConnico, I think I need to find out when he left VMI, if possible. That would establish the earliest he could have been with Henderson's Scouts.

He says he was 16. He might have been too young to show on the rosters anyway. My gr.gr. grandfather was in the same boat. He joined Ashby's cavalry at 16 in 1861 by the accounts of the veterans. In his case he was not legally enlisted until late September, 1862.

Robert P. Broadwater opined recently in his history of "Civil War Special Forces" (2014) on the issue of underage soldiers...

Samuel B. is recorded as joining the Corps of Cadets of the Virginia Military Institute in May, 1864:

Couper, William, "One Hundred Years at V.M.I." Vol. 3 (1939), p. 17.


The register of former cadets shows Samuel B. McConnico attended VMI for one year with the Class of 1868, which officially commenced in October, 1864.

 

[dfostermem]

RedRover, I'm impressed! Do you know what the cross type reference next to his name refers to? So it looks like he left Henderson's Scouts in 1864 to go to VMI. That would mean he was one of those on the surrender roll who was elsewhere. The request to enroll the three seems to imply that he was not one who left the school to fight unless there was some sort of requirement to apply to get back in.

 

[RedRover]

RedRover, I'm impressed! Do you know what the cross type reference next to his name refers to? So it looks like he left Henderson's Scouts in 1864 to go to VMI. That would mean he was one of those on the surrender roll who was elsewhere. The request to enroll the three seems to imply that he was not one who left the school to fight unless there was some sort of requirement to apply to get back in.

McConnico is given in "Well Known Confederate Veterans and their War Records" (1907) as follows...

Well Known Confederate Veterans and Their War Records

www.google.com

But the above is evidently in error. He was in Henderson's Scouts before joining the corps of cadets of VMI in 1864 evidently.

The mark on McConnico's reference in the VMI roster... indicates that he was a Graduate of VMI...

As noted, he was an honorary graduate, with no standing, from 1914.


According to this biographical directory of railroad men from 1901, p. 339, Mr. McConnico attended the University of Mississippi from 1865 to 1867.

The Biographical Directory of the Railway Officials of America

www.google.com

 

[lupaglupa]

Kudos go to @RedRover not me!

 

[dfostermem]

The info I have on John Ward Gates is that he was born 1841 in Huntington, Carroll County Tn and died in 1904 in Jackson. He transferred from Company H of Forrest's Regiment on 16 Mar 1865, just before surrender. Cad Linthicum, Ranse Billington, and John Duncan also transferred to them a few months before the surrender. There are probably more but those are the ones I'm aware of now. Any additional info would be appreciated. That's a great photo.

On McConnico, he seems to have been very successful after the war. I have found this to be true with many in the unit. My perception is that the unit was considered to be desirable. I think Henderson would have been looking for men who could think on their feet, be charismatic, independent, trustworthy, and able to socialize with the locals. These would all be traits that would help someone in business after the war. Of the ones who lived long lives, many were in leadership roles of Confederate veteran organizations.

 

[dfostermem]

I guess I should add that bios and obituaries written after they die seem to have errors (I've found the same with death certificates). Most of the time it is reported by a family member who gets facts mixed up. Having said that, it is rare to find something like the VMI info that can straighten it out. At least they mentioned his service. Many times I'm trying to track down somewhat common names and many don't make any mention of Civil War service or unit served in.

 

[RedRover]

On McConnico, he seems to have been very successful after the war. I have found this to be true with many in the unit. My perception is that the unit was considered to be desirable. I think Henderson would have been looking for men who could think on their feet, be charismatic, independent, trustworthy, and able to socialize with the locals. These would all be traits that would help someone in business after the war. Of the ones who lived long lives, many were in leadership roles of Confederate veteran organizations.

We have seen that Henderson wouldn't take undisciplined men, but required written testimonials for men presenting themselves to him.

From 1914, another notice of the superior qualities of Henderson and his hand picked scouts.

From the Weekly Clarion, Jackson, Miss., 7-4-1877:

Col. Fremantle of the British Army observed in May, 1863 while travelling in the Confederacy...

While Fremantle somewhat slaps them with a feather, the point made is that the chivalrous young scout would not murder a prisoner, though he would have preferred the man resisted...




Henderson's command of hand picked men differed markedly from common army units, filled with conscripts... Here General Chalmers complains half his men were mere partisans without training, and even this instructed men were imperfectly disciplined...

 

[dfostermem]

I've found in Fold3 a listing of all those who surrendered at Gainesville associated with Henderson's Scouts. The logbook has on the inside cover that its "Volume 240 to Microscopy 598". NARA uses M598 to refer to it. Looking at it, it appears to be generated after the fact. It refers to Henderson's Scouts as coming from Number of Roll 31. I am assuming that refers to the source used to generate the list in the logbook. Has anyone ever traced any of the mass surrender documents back to the source? Just wondering if I would need to go to NARA to find it or even if that is possible. My thought is if I could look at the original, I might be able to discern something about individuals who were "added on". I'm thinking that as information was written in various forms after the fact, the recorder might have reordered the information to make it easier to find someone (put in alphabetical order). I'm hoping the original might start with the main unit members followed by some names that seem to be add as an afterthought. If nothing else, it could identify if any errors were made by recorder who created the logbook.

The easiest way I've found this logbook is searching on W P Timberlake. In my searches the logbook version comes up as the second item. Ends up this guy is related to Justin Timberlake. In his bio, he never claims Henderson Scouts although he does say he surrendered with Forrest at Gainesville. He is a perfect candidate for an add on that really wasn't in the unit.

 

[RedRover]

I've found in Fold3 a listing of all those who surrendered at Gainesville associated with Henderson's Scouts. The logbook has on the inside cover that its "Volume 240 to Microscopy 598". NARA uses M598 to refer to it. Looking at it, it appears to be generated after the fact. It refers to Henderson's Scouts as coming from Number of Roll 31. I am assuming that refers to the source used to generate the list in the logbook. Has anyone ever traced any of the mass surrender documents back to the source? Just wondering if I would need to go to NARA to find it or even if that is possible. My thought is if I could look at the original, I might be able to discern something about individuals who were "added on". I'm thinking that as information was written in various forms after the fact, the recorder might have reordered the information to make it easier to find someone (put in alphabetical order). I'm hoping the original might start with the main unit members followed by some names that seem to be add as an afterthought. If nothing else, it could identify if any errors were made by recorder who created the logbook.

The easiest way I've found this logbook is searching on W P Timberlake. In my searches the logbook version comes up as the second item. Ends up this guy is related to Justin Timberlake. In his bio, he never claims Henderson Scouts although he does say he surrendered with Forrest at Gainesville. He is a perfect candidate for an add on that really wasn't in the unit.

All of the documents employed by the US clerks to produce the compiled military service records in the late 1800s are yet in the collections of the National Archives at Washington, DC, and should be available for viewing by researchers, etc.

 

[dfostermem]

I've contacted a researcher in DC to pursue what is there. We'll see.

Does anyone know of how the administration occurred at the time of mass surrender? In John Milton Hubbard's book "Notes of a Private" he states no Federal officers came into their camp. Blank paroles were furnished and he filled out the ones for his company.

I have seen individual parole documents that various soldiers had carried with them home. I've always assumed that those were produced later in the process (i.e. musters turned into Federals with individual paroles written afterwards). Is there a chance that the individual paroles were written first? Given the volume involved, I would think they would have modified the standard process for prisoners and parole.

For example, after verbal or written surrender by Forrest of command in mass, the Confederates were given blank paroles that were filled out for each individual, then the Federals received a stack of paroles that they then generated what we now accept as a roll. If this is the case, then getting original "rolls" from Archives would not be of any value for me.

 

[lupaglupa]

There is a book by the historian Caroline Janney which you might want to get - Ends of War: The Unfinished Fight of Lee's Army after Appomattox. It details a lot of what happened with paroles etc.

 

[dfostermem]

There is a book by the historian Caroline Janney which you might want to get - Ends of War: The Unfinished Fight of Lee's Army after Appomattox. It details a lot of what happened with paroles

 

[dfostermem]

Thanks. I placed a order for it. In meantime I'll see what comes back from Archives.

 

[Story]

I have little interest in the specific topic, but this thread is exceptionally well researched.

 

[TerryB]

It's hard to read, but the writing says,"Mr. J.W. Gates."

Gates was captured in Marshall County. Miss., in the Spring of 1864 while watching Sherman's movements. He did prison time in Memphis and Alton, Ill.

 

[dfostermem]

I just received Caroline E Janney's "Ends of War" and while it doesn't specifically provides details on the surrender at Citronelle, it covers much of the issues associated with the Prisoner/Parole documentation associated with the surrender at the end of the war. Without going into all the various reasons and examples provided that are very interesting, I will summarize the main aspects associated with the CMSR surrender documentation.

1.

 

[dfostermem]

Summary:

1. In some cases individuals were handed blank paroles and allowed to leave. For them there would be no record unless a parole roll was generated by their command. So, lack of a CMSR document doesn't prove they were not there.

2. In some cases the commands generated parole rolls where the officer would sign for everyone on the list, so there might not have been an individual parole generated/provided.

3. In some cases individuals were separated from their commands and needed to be on a roll to leave. They would go from command to command trying to find someone to add them on that unit's list so they could leave. So a CMSR surrender document does not prove they were in that unit or associated with it at all.

4. In some cases individuals were listed on parole rolls who were served with the unit but were not present. She provided examples of individuals who were on the rolls that had been captured over a year before. So the parole roll does not prove they were present.

So the CMSR documents associated with surrender (which in some cases may be all that is in an individual's CMSR) proves nothing. It should be viewed as a clue or a datapoint, nothing more.

Since the CMSR documents what the clerks recorded when they generated the cards, for where such a surrender card exists, the original source document could have been an individual parole or it could have been a unit parole roll.