Hunted down after Gettysburg

[FPT]

I think my position on this, is, this was a kangaroo court. There were so many deserters and there was a HUGE amount of discrepancies on how the ANV handled this. These executions went way too far, in my opinion, considering there were plenty of other deserters who took "French Leave" but would come back to their units after they went home to take care of whatever urgent business they took care of. Those were deserters but most of them didn't get shot or put through the court martial process.

You forget that someone in this group of deserters fired on others with a death resulting.

 

[Ole Miss]

My GGGrandfather, Joseph Piner, was a member of the 3rd North Carolina, Company H. He fought at Gettysburg and must have been present to witness the executions.
I would love to hear more about the rock @JOHNT mentioned.
Regards
David

 

[edfranksphd]

Article from the 15 September edition of the Richmond Examiner provides details of the execution including the names of Futch's co-defendants.
View attachment 448954

War is hell. But sometimes it is necessary to endure this hell, nevertheless. Lee had just lost Gettysburg, and Longstreet's corps had been detached to or was about to be detached to Chickamauga (2 days later it would pay off with greatest Rebel victory of the war), so one can hardly blame the authorities in Northern VA, and Lee, with his perhaps 50,000 troops, for cracking down hard, given Meade's 125,000 troops just over the Rapidan/Rappahanock, waiting for an opening to strike for Richmond. The article is published Sep 15, but execution was Sep 5, so Gen L was only just getting reading for the most successful RR reinforcement of the war by either side, even topping Bull Run #1, scale aside?

 

[121st PA Vols]

I visited the rock carving from the 3rd NC by Spangler spring at GB

@JOHNT I believe you meant 1st NC. That's the rock carving just east of Spanglers Spring. Check it out in the vid.

 

[Bruce Vail]

War is hell. But sometimes it is necessary to endure this hell, nevertheless. Lee had just lost Gettysburg, and Longstreet's corps had been detached to or was about to be detached to Chickamauga (2 days later it would pay off with greatest Rebel victory of the war), so one can hardly blame the authorities in Northern VA, and Lee, with his perhaps 50,000 troops, for cracking down hard, given Meade's 125,000 troops just over the Rapidan/Rappahanock, waiting for an opening to strike for Richmond. The article is published Sep 15, but execution was Sep 5, so Gen L was only just getting reading for the most successful RR reinforcement of the war by either side, even topping Bull Run #1, scale aside?

Well, yes, you can blame General Lee. As Jayne Blair's pamphlet Tragedy at Montpelier points out, Lee wrote to Jeff. Davis on Aug. 17, 1863 calling for the "rigid enforcement of the death penalty in future in cases of conviction" for desertion. Lee had also cited North Carolina deserters as a special problem in the same letter.

see https://www.leefamilyarchive.org/fa...obert-e-lee-to-jefferson-davis-1863-august-17

It can hardly be a coincidence that Davis received the letter Aug. 18 or Aug. 19 and the executions were then carried out Sept. 5.

 

[ErnieMac]

I can't help but thinking that if Lieutenant Mallett had not been killed the penalty may have been less severe.

 

[Tennessee Union Gal]

I can't help but thinking that if Lieutenant Mallett had not been killed the penalty may have been less severe.

I imagine so. But still, I can't help but be sorry for these boys who had been through the hell of battle and wanting to get out of there. Casualties of war.

 

[FPT]

I can't help but thinking that if Lieutenant Mallett had not been killed the penalty may have been less severe.

Maybe, but, no matter, an example was set.

 

[Dave D]

Here is a link to a really good essay about Desertion during the Civil War : https://www.essentialcivilwarcurriculum.com/desertion,-cowardice-and-punishment.html

 

[AA484]

No offense, but you're being awfully soft on these men for what they did. Your characterization of quote "Private John Futch and 12 other members of the 3rd North Carolina Infantry left their posts and escaped into nearby woods" is a misrepresentation of what they did. They didn't just 'leave their posts' without being properly relieved, or "escape". Escape is something you do from the enemy. They deserted.
They left their unit in a weaker state while betraying their friends, fellow soldiers and the cause if you want to go there with it.

My view as a vet doesn't see them "Hunted Down after Gettysburg"as PC does....as tho something was inherently wrong in going after deserters and prosecuting them. Everybody wants to go home. They wanted to go home when I was in but stayed with their unit with their friends.

I don't see anything wrong with them deserting their cause

 

[121st PA Vols]

I don't see anything wrong with them deserting their cause

How "don't you see anything wrong with them deserting their cause", which is to say that you have no problem walking out on your friends, betraying the trust they have in you, turning your back on them? Wow.

 

[Bruce Vail]

How "don't you see anything wrong with them deserting their cause", which is to say that you have no problem walking out on your friends, betraying the trust they have in you, turning your back on them? Wow.

I think you are missing the point. Deserting "the cause" is only a moral failure if the cause is a morally worthy one. There are a lot of people who think the Confederate States of America was not a morally worthy cause.

 

[121st PA Vols]

I think you are missing the point. Deserting "the cause" is only a moral failure if the cause is a morally worthy one. There are a lot of people who think the Confederate States of America was not a morally worthy cause.

You're 'backfitting' todays morals into another period of time. You can't do that. 'They' thought it was morally acceptable.......at that time.
I doubt these individuals discussed the morality of the war or slavery before deserting. Hard defending a deserter. That's as low as it gets in the military unless you defect to the other side.

 

[Bruce Vail]

You're 'backfitting' todays morals into another period of time. You can't do that. 'They' thought it was morally acceptable.......at that time.
I doubt these individuals discussed the morality of the war or slavery before deserting. Hard defending a deserter. That's as low as it gets in the military unless you defect to the other side.

Well, no. I am not backfitting anything, but I am trying to impress on you that a lot of people today find the CSA morally indefensible. That's the context of my comment. Nothing more.

 

[NDR5thNY]

C-SPAN has a good little video of historian Peter Carmichael talking about the tragic story of John Futch:

Confederate Deserter John Futch

Gettysburg College history professor Peter Carmichael talked about Confederate soldier John Futch and why he chose to desert after the battle of Gettysburg. Mr. Carmichael is the author of [The War for the Common Soldier: How Men Thought, Fought, and Survived in Civil War Armies]. The Virginia...

www.c-span.org

Thanks for posting this lecture. I enjoyed learning from Professor Carmichael.

 

[Tennessee Union Gal]

How "don't you see anything wrong with them deserting their cause", which is to say that you have no problem walking out on your friends, betraying the trust they have in you, turning your back on them? Wow.

I think a good many deserters were just trying to get home. Completely gobsmacked by the horrors of war and perhaps their families back home were suffering hardships. I can understand why they might have deserted.

 

[121st PA Vols]

Well, no. I am not backfitting anything, but I am trying to impress on you that a lot of people today find the CSA morally indefensible. That's the context of my comment. Nothing more.

Maybe I used the wrong word, 'backfitting', describing your application of today's values/morals to something that happened 160 years ago.
Forgetting that; you actually feel that I....or anyone on the board needs to be impressed "that a lot of people today find the CSA morally indefensible?" We didn't know this?
As a kind reminder, we're talking about the act of desertion, despite the attempt to bundle a number of issues and paint these individuals in the guise of moral crusaders rather than the deserters they were.

 

[edfranksphd]

Well, yes, you can blame General Lee. As Jayne Blair's pamphlet Tragedy at Montpelier points out, Lee wrote to Jeff. Davis on Aug. 17, 1863 calling for the "rigid enforcement of the death penalty in future in cases of conviction" for desertion. Lee had also cited North Carolina deserters as a special problem in the same letter.

see https://www.leefamilyarchive.org/fa...obert-e-lee-to-jefferson-davis-1863-august-17

It can hardly be a coincidence that Davis received the letter Aug. 18 or Aug. 19 and the executions were then carried out Sept. 5.

Agreed.

 

[AA484]

I think you are missing the point. Deserting "the cause" is only a moral failure if the cause is a morally worthy one. There are a lot of people who think the Confederate States of America was not a morally worthy cause.

Maybe I used the wrong word, 'backfitting', describing your application of today's values/morals to something that happened 160 years ago.
Forgetting that; you actually feel that I....or anyone on the board needs to be impressed "that a lot of people today find the CSA morally indefensible?" We didn't know this?
As a kind reminder, we're talking about the act of desertion, despite the attempt to bundle a number of issues and paint these individuals in the guise of moral crusaders rather than the deserters they were.

If you want to go the moral route, that's fine, but this isn't WWII where you're fighting to blunt the imperial conquest of evil, despotic regimes. Instead, you could say that a lot of Confederate soldiers (beginning after Gettysburg and lasting until the end of the war) saw the futility of the struggle and began to realize that they had been manipulated into fighting a war to keep slaveowners and the southern upper class in power. "You should fight the North because 'reasons!'" This (combined with BridgetRhoads excellent post above) trumped any type of manufactured camaraderie they may have been indoctrinated with early on and more and more began deserting as the war entered its fourth and final year. Also remember that a lot of these men were drafted and put into a war against their will. I don't have studies in front of me, but I don't think it would be far from the truth to say that post-Gettysburg, a lot of their comrades probably took a nonchalant attitude towards desertion and in some cases encouraged it.

 

[Lubliner]

I think a good many deserters were just trying to get home. Completely gobsmacked by the horrors of war and perhaps their families back home were suffering hardships. I can understand why they might have deserted.

I think I would have come to find the execution to be a worse fate for the deserters than standing the test of battle. Anyone that chooses to flee and die by execution quickly learns this as he faces a firing squad. Any witness would probably feel the same. That is definitely an example for others to remain at their posts, don't you think?
Lubliner.