Sherman Sherman's Wartime Record

Had Grant or Lee replaced Sherman. Had Alexander, Caesar, Hannibal, Napoleon or Wellington replaced Sherman, the march to the Sea is only possible because Hood goes haring off to Tennessee. Had there been anything but worthless state militia in the entire state to oppose him, Sherman would never have reached the sea. His army would have starved to death well before the coast.

Sherman survived by foraging off the land. He was able to do so by dispersing his army across almost the width of Ga. Had there been ANY Confederate army available to threaten him, he would have had to re-unite his army to face the possible threat. Not to fight off the enemy, but to be ready to fight him off. Assembled they could not forage. No forage, no eat.

Maybe Hood would not have been smart enough to take advantage but Johnston most certainly could/would have as well as most Confederate commanders. (Would you have wanted to see what Forrest could have done.)
Interesting. Napolean was defeated because the winter set in at Moscow, so did another leader of the Germanic race lose due to the cold. And look at Hood racing north toward Nashville in an icy cold front one winter. Sherman's troops obeyed a mightier maxim than all these. You can't go against mother nature without defeating yourself.
Lubliner.
 
Interesting. Napolean was defeated because the winter set in at Moscow, so did another leader of the Germanic race lose due to the cold. And look at Hood racing north toward Nashville in an icy cold front one winter. Sherman's troops obeyed a mightier maxim than all these. You can't go against mother nature without defeating yourself.
Lubliner.
I would compare/contrast Napoleon with Hannibal. The latter decided not to try and take his opponent's capitol (Rome) because he had so thoroughly defeated them in battle. Their only option should have been to surrender and sue for terms. The Roman's adopted the "Fabian" strategy and strung out the war until they found a winning strategy.

Napoleon having taken the enemy's capitol was certain that their only option would to be sue for terms. Had he had even an inkling that they would remain intransigent, he could have decided to withdraw just 6 weeks or even a month earlier. He could have quite easily returned to his bases in Poland. His army would have essentially remained intact and after sitting out the winter could have easily returned to the offensive the following spring.
 
I would compare/contrast Napoleon with Hannibal. The latter decided not to try and take his opponent's capitol (Rome) because he had so thoroughly defeated them in battle. Their only option should have been to surrender and sue for terms. The Roman's adopted the "Fabian" strategy and strung out the war until they found a winning strategy.

Napoleon having taken the enemy's capitol was certain that their only option would to be sue for terms. Had he had even an inkling that they would remain intransigent, he could have decided to withdraw just 6 weeks or even a month earlier. He could have quite easily returned to his bases in Poland. His army would have essentially remained intact and after sitting out the winter could have easily returned to the offensive the following spring.
As soon as Hannibal crossed into "Italy", he was done. He had destroyed a few armies and the Romans kept coming. He had no reinforcements to speak of.
 
As soon as Hannibal crossed into "Italy", he was done. He had destroyed a few armies and the Romans kept coming. He had no reinforcements to speak of.
But only against the Romans. Conventional wisdom of the day and of almost any other day, would hold that when your country is invaded and army after army is crushed into non existance, that your only option is to surrender. Perhaps is Hannibal had been wiling to roll the dice and attempt an assault on Rome itself, he might have forced a surrender. We'll never know.

Are you saying that he should have anticipated Scipio's moves against him. That every attempt to reinforce him in Italy met with defeat and failure. That he should have known in advance that Scipio would move directly against Carthage and force him to abandon his veteran army and race to defend his capitol with untried troops.
 
But only against the Romans. Conventional wisdom of the day and of almost any other day, would hold that when your country is invaded and army after army is crushed into non existance, that your only option is to surrender. Perhaps is Hannibal had been wiling to roll the dice and attempt an assault on Rome itself, he might have forced a surrender. We'll never know.

Are you saying that he should have anticipated Scipio's moves against him. That every attempt to reinforce him in Italy met with defeat and failure. That he should have known in advance that Scipio would move directly against Carthage and force him to abandon his veteran army and race to defend his capitol with untried troops.
Nope. What he should have surmised is that as he got into Italy, the Romans had an almost inexhaustible number of soldiers. He destroyed armies, and the Romans kept coming.
 
Grant was confident that Sherman was up to the task assigned him and that confidence was not misplaced.

Grant, to all intents and purpose, ended the war just under a year after beginning his Overland Campaign and Sherman's campaigns in the southern heartland, had a lot to do with that. As the old saying goes ' you can't argue against success' , well I suppose there are there are those who do, but it is a lost cause.
 
William Sherman liked to win battles by marching, not by fighting. More than once he choose raiding rather than fighting. I think he knew his army was becoming more radicalized the longer the war went on.
 
I am no Sherman expert, but from what I've read about him, he wasn't that good a tactician. His combat results could best be described as being mixed (eg First Bull Run, Shiloh, during Vicksburg Campaign, during Chattanooga Campaign). He often experienced initial setbacks (or repulses) followed by recovery (or counter-attacks) on the battlefield. He was greatly aided by having superior manpower and resources to achieve his outcomes.

However, Sherman was a good strategic thinker and understood logistics well. Under Grant's direction, the two formed a lethal combination for engaging in the final movements that crushed and ended a severely depleted Confederacy (eg Atlanta Campaign, March to the Sea, Carolinas Campaign). Sherman administered the 'total war' strategy efficiently and effectively.
 
I find Sherman to be a violence-crazed scumbag. "Winning" by any means necessary…an ends justify the means leader.

That said, this is my impression reading Foote's narrative.
 
Before the Atlanta Campaign? What would you even judge it by?

Shiloh: defensive badass.

Chickasaw Bayou: sent on a fool's errand by Lincoln and Halleck.

Arkansas Post: skilled maneuver to take fortified position.

Vicksburg: relatively minor role played until the siege.

Jackson: another siege.

Chattanooga: sent to turn a position that didn't exist.

Meridian: Sherman at his best, rapid movements to destroy materiel.

That's about it. Why are you excluding the Atlanta Campaign?
Sherman's performance at Shiloh could hardly be characterized as being a "defensive badass", as he and Grant were certainly caught with their pants down.
Sherman scoffed at multiple reports of increased Confederate activity to his front, perhaps overcompensating for his recent mental breakdown.

On April 05, he told Grant:
"I have no doubt that nothing will occur today other than some picket firing. The enemy is saucy, but…will not press our pickets far. I do not apprehend anything like an attack on our position."

There is an old adage , the enemy diversion
being ignored is the main attack.
 
Sherman's performance at Shiloh could hardly be characterized as being a "defensive badass", as he and Grant were certainly caught with their pants down.
Sherman scoffed at multiple reports of increased Confederate activity to his front, perhaps overcompensating for his recent mental breakdown.

On April 05, he told Grant:
"I have no doubt that nothing will occur today other than some picket firing. The enemy is saucy, but…will not press our pickets far. I do not apprehend anything like an attack on our position."

There is an old adage , the enemy diversion
being ignored is the main attack.
Sherman misreading enemy intentions has nothing to do with his defensive abilities once engaged. He directed both his division and McClernand's division in a brutal defense that drew enemy reserves into the fray early, badly disrupting the enemy plans.

Sherman was a fighter, but he lacked the battlefield vision or intuition of a McPherson.
 
Sherman misreading enemy intentions has nothing to do with his defensive abilities once engaged. He directed both his division and McClernand's division in a brutal defense that drew enemy reserves into the fray early, badly disrupting the enemy plans.

Sherman was a fighter, but he lacked the battlefield vision or intuition of a McPherson.
There was no question of Sherman being a fighter. Preparation was a key part of maintaining a defensive position, however. Ignoring the incoming reports of a pending attack was negligent, IMO.
 
There was no question of Sherman being a fighter. Preparation was a key part of maintaining a defensive position, however. Ignoring the incoming reports of a pending attack was negligent, IMO.
That's a line of argument that goes really deep into the weeds really fast. Grant was on the offensive. Offensive armies didn't typically throw up earthworks on the move at that point in the war. I don't see anyone giving Lee grief for not throwing up earthworks at Sharpsburg 6 months later. Was Lee a dummy too? :D

I think Shiloh speaks more to Sherman's two weaknesses: he lacked battlefield vision (intuition, a sense of what the other commander would do given the operational situation), and when things went sideways he tended to deflect blame onto others (McClernand at Shiloh, Morgan at Chickasaw Bayou, McPherson at Snake Creek Gap, Thomas at Atlanta).
 
That's a line of argument that goes really deep into the weeds really fast. Grant was on the offensive. Offensive armies didn't typically throw up earthworks on the move at that point in the war. I don't see anyone giving Lee grief for not throwing up earthworks at Sharpsburg 6 months later. Was Lee a dummy too? :D

I think Shiloh speaks more to Sherman's two weaknesses: he lacked battlefield vision (intuition, a sense of what the other commander would do given the operational situation), and when things went sideways he tended to deflect blame onto others (McClernand at Shiloh, Morgan at Chickasaw Bayou, McPherson at Snake Creek Gap, Thomas at Atlanta).
The natural entrenchments of the sunken road and the heights above the Burnside bridge, even Nicodemus Heights at Sharpsburg. Howard at Chancellorsville may be a better analogy, for which he was criticized.
 
The natural entrenchments of the sunken road and the heights above the Burnside bridge, even Nicodemus Heights at Sharpsburg. Howard at Chancellorsville may be a better analogy, for which he was criticized.
Sherman was aligned on natural defenses as well at Shiloh Church. Again, you're getting into counter-factual argument that can lead down strange rabbit holes. For example, it could be argued that if federal troops entrench at PIttsburg Landing, Johnston simply waits until they begin to move on Corinth to counter-attack, resulting in Johnston picking the ground fought upon, and federal troops taking more casualties, not fewer.

It's an interesting thing to argue about, but a bit counter-productive with regard to the question posed.
 
Sherman's performance at Shiloh could hardly be characterized as being a "defensive badass", as he and Grant were certainly caught with their pants down.
Sherman scoffed at multiple reports of increased Confederate activity to his front, perhaps overcompensating for his recent mental breakdown.

On April 05, he told Grant:
"I have no doubt that nothing will occur today other than some picket firing. The enemy is saucy, but…will not press our pickets far. I do not apprehend anything like an attack on our position."

There is an old adage , the enemy diversion
being ignored is the main attack.
I think this is correct. And Grant had agents observing the Confederate build up further west than Pittsburgh Landing. But the Confederates blocked them and Grant did not get correct reports of the enemy shielding build up zones. The Confederates did a good job hiding their forces. So the information Sherman was getting was not confirmed by reports from headquarters. It was an intelligence failure by men not experienced in the demands of high command.
 
I think this is correct. And Grant had agents observing the Confederate build up further west than Pittsburgh Landing. But the Confederates blocked them and Grant did not get correct reports of the enemy shielding build up zones. The Confederates did a good job hiding their forces. So the information Sherman was getting was not confirmed by reports from headquarters. It was an intelligence failure by men not experienced in the demands of high command.
Command and control was certainly a problem on both sides during the battle considering the war was still in its infant stage. I referenced more of the warnings of the skirmishes to Sherman's front prior to the battle.

On April 04, a skirmish escalated as Ohio cavalry pickets under Sherman's command were captured by Confederate cavalry. More Ohio troops were sent in to assist, observing approximately 2000 Confederate infantry and artillery.

Sherman was reportedly more irritated than alarmed at the increased reports of the Confederate buildup. On April 05 he told a subordinate " Take your damned regiment back to Ohio. There is no enemy nearer than Corinth.."

Sherman was aligned on natural defenses as well at Shiloh Church. Again, you're getting into counter-factual argument that can lead down strange rabbit holes. For example, it could be argued that if federal troops entrench at PIttsburg Landing, Johnston simply waits until they begin to move on Corinth to counter-attack, resulting in Johnston picking the ground fought upon, and federal troops taking more casualties, not fewer.

It's an interesting thing to argue about, but a bit counter-productive with regard to the question posed.
I would not state this is a rabbit hole in that Sherman failed to heed the aforementioned warnings of the impending attack prior to the battle. I also did not state Sherman should have entrenched, considering that did not occur on the battlefield. (Although Beauregard was initially reluctant to attack because he expected to face entrenched federals who were alarmed to Confederate activity). There were several wooded areas between clearings providing a natural defense, which hindered coordinated attacks during the battle.

Allowing his troops sit idly by in camp, which, Sherman did, was the opposite end of the spectrum. Preparing his lines for an attack would have been a minimal approach.
 
Is there a definitive biography on Sherman? I want to give them a fair shake since so far my impression of him is an unpleasant one.
 
Sherman was reportedly more irritated than alarmed at the increased reports of the Confederate buildup. On April 05 he told a subordinate " Take your damned regiment back to Ohio. There is no enemy nearer than Corinth.."
First reference for this quote comes decades after the battle and it doesn't fit with what Sherman writing that day so I find the quote doubtful

Allowing his troops sit idly by in camp, which, Sherman did..
He did not allow them to sit idle. This is a lie put forth about Sherman.

When Hardee's command attacked the next day, they found Sherman's men prepared - Hardee reported that Sherman's men were behind "bales of hay, logs, and other defenses"
 
Is there a definitive biography on Sherman? I want to give them a fair shake since so far my impression of him is an unpleasant one.
If you can stomach it, his memoirs aren't terrible. As with any memoir you have to take it with a grain of salt but it might be helpful to let the man speak for himself - if only to add to the overall understanding of the man. You seem to know what a bunch of other folks have said about him, why not see what he says for himself?
 
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