How many veterans lied about their service?

[lupaglupa]

I read a fascinating article recently about the surprising (to me) number of people who claim to have won the Medal of Honor when they haven't. Despite the ease of fact checking in the age of the internet, some people seem to think they can lie about such an important fact and get away with it. Which made me wonder - in an era like the Civil War, when fact checking was a lot harder, how many veterans lied about their service?

I suppose that answer needs some subtlety to it. It seems to me a lot of people made the facts "better" by putting themselves closer to the action or in greater danger or more crucial to the outcome. Or they told the story in such a way that the listener could assume the speaker had had greater importance. But some must have out and out lied, people being people.

Does anyone know of instances when someone telling a boldfaced lie about their service got caught?

 

[jackt62]

In recent years, there have been a number of cases where modern day veterans (or perhaps not even vets), lied about their service records and decorations. I think there was a high profile case a few years ago of an army general who falsely wore ribbons or other medals to which he was not entitled. Don't remember the particulars, though. I'm sure there were similar cases from the CW but the contemporary means of searching for falsehoods via the internet and other social media probably means that in contrast, a lot of those 19th century cases never came to light.

 

[TnFed]

If one considers pension fraud, lying, East TN had quite a few participants. Ex rebs and unionist both making up service time and injuries. Of course there were some that served on both sides. A Lt. Clapp was quite busy investigating claims in Monroe County TN and Cherokee County NC after the war..

 

[lupaglupa]

If one considers pension fraud, lying, East TN had quite a few participants. Ex rebs and unionist both making up service time and injuries. Of course there were some that served on both sides. A Lt. Clapp was quite busy investigating claims in Monroe County TN and Cherokee County NC after the war..

Interesting. I wonder if there were other regional investigators. I know the pension applications required a lot of proof.

 

[Copperhead-mi]

IIRC, during the 1950s some of the self proclaimed oldest surviving Civil War veterans were found to have never served.

 

[lupaglupa]

I know a lot of companies were formed in local communities and the soldiers returned there - that may have cut down on some lying since witnesses to your service were right there.

 

[lelliott19]

I know a lot of companies were formed in local communities and the soldiers returned there - that may have cut down on some lying since witnesses to your service were right there.

That's what I was about to say. If you lived in the community before the war, you most likely served in the same Company with others who lived there. People would know if you served. I would think you'd have been more likely to get away with lying about your service in large cities where not everyone knew each other and/or by removing to another state.

 

[Copperhead-mi]

That's what I was about to say. If you lived in the community before the war, you most likely served in the same Company with others who lived there. People would know if you served. I would think lying about your service would have been more possible if you removed to another state or in a large city where not everyone knew each other.

You'd thinks so but on the other hand recall Kerry and Blumenthal who lied about their service and did so on national media. Didn't they stop to think that others who had served with them wouldn't come forward?

 

[Arioch]

IIRC, during the 1950s some of the self proclaimed oldest surviving Civil War veterans were found to have never served.

Most of the time, I tend to give these guys a pass (ACW vets)...unless proven to be bald faced naughty. The record keeping and documentation was terrible to non-existent then. I know of a number of cases where guys had to provide proof of service...affidavits from comrades, medical records, even family bibles that casually documented their own birth...on and on...

Modern day?...no excuse...

My Dad died a few years ago...20+ year Navy vet....I ended up with one of his foul weather service jackets (great winter coat!). It has his unit, his last name, etc stitched on it. I began wearing it out and about....and quickly became aware of how much I grossly underestimated folks believing I had served...It was also nice to find out first hand how much esteem vets deservedly receive from ordinary folks and other service / former service members. After a couple weeks of this (and my slow to come about realization), I felt like I needed a shower....the "stolen valor" thing...I don't wear it out and about anymore...I keep it as the 'rake the leaves / snow shoveling' winter coat. It never leaves my property anymore.

 

[Lubliner]

The 'name-stealing' goes on to this very day, where the internet is used to abscond with some other's identification.
Lubliner.

 

[lupaglupa]

I know of a number of cases where guys had to provide proof of service...affidavits from comrades, medical records, even family bibles that casually documented their own birth...on and on...

My great-great-grandmother had to find witnesses to her wedding when she claimed a widow's pension. I seen many similar ones doing records research for folks here on CWT.

 

[jackt62]

Here's another thought. How many of those Medal of Honor decorations went to CW veterans who probably wouldn't have received them but for political connections (Dan Sickles comes to mind).

 

[TnFed]

Interesting. I wonder if there were other regional investigators. I know the pension applications required a lot of proof.

I don't know. Lt. Clapp was sent down in 1871 to mainly investigate Thomas Boyd, a former Confederate. Boyd had acquired possession of a TN National Guard USA muster roll. It was decimated by regular Confederate and Thomas' Legion forces. He seemed a fair minded sort as he filed pensions for ex rebs, unionist who had not served that long and older men who had been in the Mexican War. He was indicted on thirty or so charges. Manage to escape to Canada but returned to TN and got caught. Once Clapp got started he was really busy as quite a few men in the 3rd TN Mounted Infantry USA had "elaborated " on their service. It's really a very interesting story.

 

[Arioch]

I've never heard that story (Lt. Clapp)...the first question that comes to my mind is: Do you know if he received a cut / kickback?...I could see that happening.

 

[Fairfield]

Most of the deliberate lies that I've encountered had to do with pensions. But, secondly, as many veterans aged, some exaggerated their roles and their own importance to the fight. Thirdly, there were veterans who were so saddened and/or sickened by the carnage that they denied any connection. Then there were cases in which the veteran submitted his war history for publication--and the editors doctored it up to create greater interest (in these cases, it wasn't the vet himself who lied but others who were "improving" his story).

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

My great-great-grandmother had to find witnesses to her wedding when she claimed a widow's pension. I seen many similar ones doing records research for folks here on CWT.

I think a lot a women went through that even well after the ACW, even post-WW2. Marriage record keeping was just too spotty.

 

[Fairfield]

I think a lot a women went through that even well after the ACW, even post-WW2. Marriage record keeping was just too spotty.

Not only that but there were the "contest widows". Sometimes a man who, left a wife at home, married another woman while off at war--without divorcing the first. Most times, the widows didn't know about each other until the soldier died and there was a widows pension to be had. Although I remember reading in Lee's Lieutenants about a young Confederate officer who was killed in action and, at his funeral, four women showed up in full black.

 

[JJC@NC]

On a related note, I have seen estimates of 30-40% of actual veterans not
having a CMSR - what do you experienced members think of that figure?

 

[lelliott19]

On a related note, I have seen estimates of 30-40% of actual veterans not
having a CMSR - what do you experienced members think of that figure?

I think that is a pretty high estimate, at least as far as the records Ive searched - mostly Georgia, some USCT, and occasional Union soldiers. I think mis-spelling and mis-filing was just so common it's easy to miss a record for a soldier if you aren't careful. That's not to say that I have never run across a soldier who was documented (in other ways) to have served, but has no record at the National Archives. Just that it has been extremely rare NOT to eventually find them. Again, you have to check misspelled, misfiled, etc.

There are also literally TONS of records who are in reality, the same man with duplicate records. They are filed under two more variations - mispellings, initials, first name and middle initial, first name no middle initial, etc. --- but all the same person. As a result of this phenomena, the total number of men who served in a regiment may be much smaller than previous estimates. Also, especially in Confederate records, because of the demand for soldiers, a great number of men served in multiple regiments. If you ever find a man who enlisted in 1864 who was old enough to have served previously, its best to take a closer look. He probably served earlier in some other regiment.

 

[lupaglupa]

as many veterans aged, some exaggerated their roles and their own importance to the fight. ..... Then there were cases in which the veteran submitted his war history for publication--and the editors doctored it up to create greater interest (in these cases, it wasn't the vet himself who lied but others who were "improving" his story).

I always heard one of my gr-gr-grandfathers "rode with Nathan Bedford Forrest.." Well, that's true if by "rode with" you mean "was in the CSA Cavalry during a time when Forrest was in charge of the area where he fought" which, to me, is hardly the same. But I don't know if he himself exaggerated the facts or his descendants did. I imagine similar stories abound in other families.