Two Infamous Guerrillas

[mofederal]

As I said I do not care for this image even if it's real. It is supposedly Archie Clement in death

 

[LtRusell]

According to all accounts Bloody Bill took a shot to the back of his head. You would think it would have exited somewhere out the face, but I am no ballistics expert. he does appear pretty clean.

I'm not sure how he was shot. Back of the head would indicate a retreat to me, but I wasn't there. Who knows?

I will say that the pressure from a ACW weapon and newer weapons is a whole different thing. While the rounds were the same with pistols (with post war replacement parts) the range wasn't exactly huge. The rifles being used were about 900- 1,000 yards out. Give or take a soldiers aim and ladder sights.

 

[LtRusell]

View attachment 163460

As I said I do not care for this image even if it's real. It is supposedly Archie Clement in death

I seriously doubt it myself. It's a grim reminder of the times.

 

[mofederal]

The story is that Bloody Bill and one other man charged through Major Cox's lines, the other man fell off of his horse was wounded, he supposedly got away. and Bill was shot twice from behind, as the men of the 33rd EMM and 51st EMM turned and fired at him. The Federal's found his horse on a nearby farm the next day. The bugler of the 33rd EMM Adolph Vogel is the man whose arm is seen in the photos holding up Bill's head. In some views, more of Vogel is seen.

 

[mofederal]

The general area of where Bloody Bill was killed near Orrick (Now Albany) in Ray County.

 

[mofederal]

The area thought to be where Bloody Bill's last fight occurred in Ray County near Orrick (Albany).

 

[mofederal]

Battle of Albany (Orrick), Mo Monument to Bloody Bill Anderson and other Guerrillas killed in the battle.

 

[archieclement]

There's doubt that dead guy is Bill Anderson? I didn't know that but one thing that always bothered me about the photo was it was pretty tidy...didn't he get two bullets in the head?

one was supposed to have entered right behind the ear, another odd thing is thought some accounts have him having been dragged behind a horse too.......he does seem remarkably intact though in photo

 

[diane]

Hmm. If he was passing the shooter, might have got it side of the head. That could knock him backward off the horse, get hung up in the stirrup would get him dragged. Still comes out a mess! I suppose relatives or somebody tidied him up, if that dead body is Anderson. Reckon he figured on an end like that anyway.

 

[diane]

Well, good grief! @Patrick H explained the death right off the bat! (And I ain't even drunk...) Patrick H, is there a question about that famous picture of dead Bloody Bill?

 

[mofederal]

The best I can find is that Anderson was shot twice in the left side of his head. Some sources say his body was dragged around the Ray County Courthouse square before he then and put on display there. His body was viewed by hundreds of people. The body was taken to a photographer, actually a Dentist, D. Robert B. Kice, some called him the Ray County photographer. He took the ambrotypes. Anderson's left hand is visible in the image, showing the finger that had been cut off by a soldier to get the ring from his hand. The order of these events are different in some sources. Some sources also say his head was not cut off. He was buried after his image was taken. There were 11 other guerrillas killed at the battle They were buried on the battlefield at Orrick (Albany). It does not state if their bodies were later moved.

 

[mofederal]

This is the image of Bloody Bill I talked about. Around half of Bugler Vogel can be seen. This is a tintype, usually this image is shown reversed.

 

[diane]

View attachment 163490

This is the image of Bloody Bill I talked about. Around half of Bugler Vogel can be seen. This is a tintype, usually this image is shown reversed.

Thanks for the details. So there's no doubt that's really Anderson, then.

 

[Booner]

Well, good grief! @Patrick H explained the death right off the bat! (And I ain't even drunk...) Patrick H, is there a question about that famous picture of dead Bloody Bill?

I think Patrick H is in Arkansas this weekend, so he won't be able to answer you until he gets back, but yes, there have been a number of questions regarding Bill's death photo. It seems like it shows up on this forum about every six months or so. Patrick H posted a thread entitled "The Death of Bill Anderson" a while back, and I did one called "Meet the Anderson's" which is about a photo of (supposedly) the Anderson family taken in 1860, just before Bill's mother died due to a lightning strike. And we had a thread about a year ago regarding Guerrilla shirts, in which I commented on the shirt Bill was wearing in his death photo.

Once the word got out that the Captain had been killed, I think a female cousin of his came into Richmond, Mo and cleaned his body prior to the photo being taken. If so, maybe she dressed him in his guerrilla shirt? There is some discussion if indeed his head was severed prior to the photo being taken and that's why there's a hand holding it up. And he was shot in the back of the head, and my guess it would have been a .36 caliber pistol round, (or two). A .36 caliber Navy round is not a high caliber round. I've heard it's equivalent to a modern .380 round, which is about the minimum caliber recommended today for personal defense. If it had been a musket round, then maybe his head would have resembled a dropped pumpkin? I don't know if Cox's men had carbines. A number of horses were dropped in the charge, which would indicate to me that the militia had muskets. I have a cousin who's gg grand uncle was riding with the Captain in this fight and had a horse shot from under him. The uncle made it through the war, but the family lost track of him shortly thereafter.

 

[Booner]

Thanks for the details. So there's no doubt that's really Anderson, then.

There is a group of people who believe that someone else who resembled Bill was riding Bill's horse in the Richmond fight. So Bill survived the skirmish and promptly headed for Texas where he lived until the 1920's. He also helped found a town along the Salt River. The site is available on the nett here if you want to read about it-->
http://bloodybillanderson.webs.com

The site didn't explain how Prices's order to Anderson and Anderson personal effects where on this other persons body, hmmmm.

 

[diane]

Thanks, Booner! I know there's a family here believes Jesse James was their beloved grandpa and he lived to a ripe old age farming somewhere in Oregon. Sure not many of these fellows did that anywhere, that's a fact!

 

[mofederal]

http://daviesscountyhistoricalsocie...lph-vogel-the-slayer-of-bloody-bill-anderson/

I think the story about Bill's head being decapitated is quoted a lot, but I can't seem to find any real source of it, it seems to be repeated a lot, without a source of origin. Above I have a link to Bugler Vogel, who had Bill's hat, the worn when he died, and he also had the paper's found on Bill. He is also listed as the person who shot Bill in the head. I am sure it was a pistol shot. Who knows if it is true for a fact. I do believe the other stories Vogel tells is true.

 

[mofederal]

Bugler Adolph Vogel, claimed to have shot and killed Bloody Bill Anderson.

 

[Booner]

http://daviesscountyhistoricalsocie...lph-vogel-the-slayer-of-bloody-bill-anderson/

I think the story about Bill's head being decapitated is quoted a lot, but I can't seem to find any real source of it, it seems to be repeated a lot, without a source of origin. Above I have a link to Bugler Vogel, who had Bill's hat, the worn when he died, and he also had the paper's found on Bill. He is also listed as the person who shot Bill in the head. I am sure it was a pistol shot. Who knows if it is true for a fact. I do believe the other stories Vogel tells is true.

great link!
I wonder where that hat is now?

 

[archieclement]

I think Patrick H is in Arkansas this weekend, so he won't be able to answer you until he gets back, but yes, there have been a number of questions regarding Bill's death photo. It seems like it shows up on this forum about every six months or so. Patrick H posted a thread entitled "The Death of Bill Anderson" a while back, and I did one called "Meet the Anderson's" which is about a photo of (supposedly) the Anderson family taken in 1860, just before Bill's mother died due to a lightning strike. And we had a thread about a year ago regarding Guerrilla shirts, in which I commented on the shirt Bill was wearing in his death photo.

Once the word got out that the Captain had been killed, I think a female cousin of his came into Richmond, Mo and cleaned his body prior to the photo being taken. If so, maybe she dressed him in his guerrilla shirt? There is some discussion if indeed his head was severed prior to the photo being taken and that's why there's a hand holding it up. And he was shot in the back of the head, and my guess it would have been a .36 caliber pistol round, (or two). A .36 caliber Navy round is not a high caliber round. I've heard it's equivalent to a modern .380 round, which is about the minimum caliber recommended today for personal defense. If it had been a musket round, then maybe his head would have resembled a dropped pumpkin? I don't know if Cox's men had carbines. A number of horses were dropped in the charge, which would indicate to me that the militia had muskets. I have a cousin who's gg grand uncle was riding with the Captain in this fight and had a horse shot from under him. The uncle made it through the war, but the family lost track of him shortly thereafter.

Doesn't seem odd a female cousin would come and take care of and clean the body.....when female relatives of guerrillas were being imprisoned and banished on less of a display of loyalty?.................seems a bit odd to me considering what had happened to his sisters.......