Where would a treaty have been made?

[OldReliable1862]

If you are ever looking for a good trick question to trip up your friends, ask them "Where was the treaty signed that ended the Civil War?" Of course, there wasn't one, and instead the war ended when the Confederacy's armies surrendered and its government collapsed.

However, had the Union been somehow brought to a point where it would have been willing to accept Confederate independence, some sort of treaty would have been necessary. Where would this treaty have been negotiated and signed?

Of course, where the treaty is signed depends to some degree on the course of the war. For our purposes here, we will say that there are fewer Union victories in 1863-64, Lincoln loses reelection in 1864 to a Democrat willing to make peace.

Here are a few ideas:

1) Washington or Richmond (likely the former): this would probably be the simplest option, and the United States signed many of its treaties in Washington. However, the Confederates may feel that signing a treaty in Washington is not ideal (vice versa for the Union), and instead prefer a more neutral location.

2) Hampton Roads: as you know, in February 1865 an unsuccessful peace conference was held aboard the steamer River Queen anchored at Hampton Roads. Such a location may still be chosen.

3) Another location close to the US/CS border: another location close to the border could be chosen - I think especially of Alexandria, Virginia.

4) Canada: further afield, I think Canada is a potential location for peace to be made if Britain offers to mediate. Halifax, Montreal, or Toronto could be possible locations, among others. Indeed, @JeffBrooks chose Toronto as the location for the treaty negotiations in his Shattered Nation series.

5) Paris: Many treaties have been signed in Paris, France, and this has won the city prestige as the traditional diplomatic capital of Europe and the world.

6) Havana: @Saphroneth chose Havana, Cuba as the location in his If They Will Not Meet Us on the Open Sea, and I think it is possible if Britain or France do not want to host the negotiations.

7) Another location, possibly in the Caribbean: I am thinking especially of Nassau in the Bahamas.

 

[Saphroneth]

6) Havana: @Saphroneth chose Havana, Cuba as the location in his If They Will Not Meet Us on the Open Sea, and I think it is possible if Britain or France do not want to host the negotiations.

The goal there was basically about a neutral site for negotiations - Britain was decidedly not neutral in that particular Trent War and France had sold the CSA stuff. Spain qualified.

 

[OldReliable1862]

4) Canada: further afield, I think Canada is a potential location for peace to be made if Britain offers to mediate. Halifax, Montreal, or Toronto could be possible locations, among others. Indeed, @JeffBrooks chose Toronto as the location for the treaty negotiations in his Shattered Nation series.

@CanadianCanuck, would you care to weigh in on whether Canada would be suitable location for US/CS peace negotiations?

 

[Stryker65]

I don't know much about the diplomatic situation, but just from a military viewpoint I would think it would be one of the prisoner exchange locations, such as City Point or Vicksburg.

 

[Library Lady]

I'm voting for a railroad car at Versailles. If the French took care of it, they could use it again in 1918 and yet again in 1940, assuming, of course, that your alternative history doesn't change anything else important.

 

[Belfoured]

I'm voting for a railroad car at Versailles. If the French took care of it, they could use it again in 1918 and yet again in 1940, assuming, of course, that your alternative history doesn't change anything else important.

I think you meant Compiegne. Versailles is where the messy results took place, but a much, much better set of facilities. That car was kind of a tight squeeze.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Arlington. The Confederate government dictates peace terms in Robert E. Lee's living room.

I'm only half joking.

 

[OldReliable1862]

Arlington. The Confederate government dictates peace terms in Robert E. Lee's living room.

I'm only half joking.

Arlington is obviously quite close to Alexandria, so it would not be a bad location. Of course, I would be very surprised if the Rebels "dictate" much of anything! Rather, I think they're only chance is to either achieve recognition from Britain and/or France (not impossible, but not very likely), or exhaust the Union's will to fight (again, not very likely, but not impossible either).

 

[JeffBrooks]

Canada: further afield, I think Canada is a potential location for peace to be made if Britain offers to mediate. Halifax, Montreal, or Toronto could be possible locations, among others. Indeed, @JeffBrooks chose Toronto as the location for the treaty negotiations in his Shattered Nation series.

I've always regretted tossing Blessed Are The Peacemakers out as a mere novella, rather than taking the time to turn it into a full-fledged novel.

 

[OldReliable1862]

I've always regretted tossing Blessed Are The Peacemakers out as a mere novella, rather than taking the time to turn it into a full-fledged novel.

I was somewhat surprised John A. Macdonald didn't put in an appearance in the novella.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

If you are ever looking for a good trick question to trip up your friends, ask them "Where was the treaty signed that ended the Civil War?" Of course, there wasn't one, and instead the war ended when the Confederacy's armies surrendered and its government collapsed.

However, had the Union been somehow brought to a point where it would have been willing to accept Confederate independence, some sort of treaty would have been necessary. Where would this treaty have been negotiated and signed?

Of course, where the treaty is signed depends to some degree on the course of the war. For our purposes here, we will say that there are fewer Union victories in 1863-64, Lincoln loses reelection in 1864 to a Democrat willing to make peace.

Here are a few ideas:

1) Washington or Richmond (likely the former): this would probably be the simplest option, and the United States signed many of its treaties in Washington. However, the Confederates may feel that signing a treaty in Washington is not ideal (vice versa for the Union), and instead prefer a more neutral location.

2) Hampton Roads: as you know, in February 1865 an unsuccessful peace conference was held aboard the steamer River Queen anchored at Hampton Roads. Such a location may still be chosen.

3) Another location close to the US/CS border: another location close to the border could be chosen - I think especially of Alexandria, Virginia.

4) Canada: further afield, I think Canada is a potential location for peace to be made if Britain offers to mediate. Halifax, Montreal, or Toronto could be possible locations, among others. Indeed, @JeffBrooks chose Toronto as the location for the treaty negotiations in his Shattered Nation series.

5) Paris: Many treaties have been signed in Paris, France, and this has won the city prestige as the traditional diplomatic capital of Europe and the world.

6) Havana: @Saphroneth chose Havana, Cuba as the location in his If They Will Not Meet Us on the Open Sea, and I think it is possible if Britain or France do not want to host the negotiations.

7) Another location, possibly in the Caribbean: I am thinking especially of Nassau in the Bahamas.

One option could be Fort Monroe.

 

[JeffBrooks]

One option could be Fort Monroe.

The Confederates would have objected to holding the conference at Fort Monroe as long as it was in Union hands, since the cession of the fort itself to the Confederacy would have been one of the items on the agenda. By accepting an invitation to Fort Monroe while it was in Union hands, it would give symbolic support to the idea that the fort should remain in the hands of the United States.

 

[OldReliable1862]

Thoughts on the suitability of Halifax, Nova Scotia as a location for the negotiations? Meeting in Halifax would remove the need for a long train ride across Union territory, which I doubt the Confederate commissioners would be looking forward to.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

The Confederates would have objected to holding the conference at Fort Monroe as long as it was in Union hands, since the cession of the fort itself to the Confederacy would have been one of the items on the agenda. By accepting an invitation to Fort Monroe while it was in Union hands, it would give symbolic support to the idea that the fort should remain in the hands of the United States.

Good point.

 

[Saphroneth]

Thoughts on the suitability of Halifax, Nova Scotia as a location for the negotiations? Meeting in Halifax would remove the need for a long train ride across Union territory, which I doubt the Confederate commissioners would be looking forward to.

You can go by ship to other places in Canada, like Montreal - though I would suspect that time of year might matter. If it's winter it might be Bermuda or similar, while if it's summer then Halifax or Montreal (by ship) would make sense. Assuming in both cases that Britain is a neutral party.

The neutrality is pretty symbolically important though, at least for something like this with Confederate independence. You don't want the treaty blowing up to be something either side is incentivized to do.

 

[OldReliable1862]

You can go by ship to other places in Canada, like Montreal - though I would suspect that time of year might matter. If it's winter it might be Bermuda or similar, while if it's summer then Halifax or Montreal (by ship) would make sense. Assuming in both cases that Britain is a neutral party.

The neutrality is pretty symbolically important though, at least for something like this with Confederate independence. You don't want the treaty blowing up to be something either side is incentivized to do.

For reference, the Saint Lawrence usually thaws around late March-early April, though they obviously didn't have icebreakers on the Saint Lawrence in those days. If this is a case where Lincoln loses reelection, then the incoming Democrat president will probably begin negotiations in March-April 1865.

 

[steve59p]

I would say it might depend on the way the war is concluded. As Saphroneth says with his TL Britain was a belligerent so he looked for neutral territory so if Britain or France [or both] were drawn in their territory would probably be ruled out. Otherwise Bermuda might be a suitable place as neutral and close to each nations centre of government. With guarantees of safe passage for the southern delegates, both to and from.

Somewhere in Europe might be an option but that might be unpopular in the north as they wouldn't want any European influence or status to the event. Plus without a working trans-Atlantic telegraph any need to contact with the central government - or for vital members of either/both governments being in Europe and weeks away from events at home - would be awkward.

Havana is also a decent option although weather and climate could be an issue. Might be awkward if one or more important people went down with a fever or discussions were interrupted by a hurricane.

 

[OldReliable1862]

I would say it might depend on the way the war is concluded. As Saphroneth says with his TL Britain was a belligerent so he looked for neutral territory so if Britain or France [or both] were drawn in their territory would probably be ruled out. Otherwise Bermuda might be a suitable place as neutral and close to each nations centre of government. With guarantees of safe passage for the southern delegates, both to and from.

Somewhere in Europe might be an option but that might be unpopular in the north as they wouldn't want any European influence or status to the event. Plus without a working trans-Atlantic telegraph any need to contact with the central government - or for vital members of either/both governments being in Europe and weeks away from events at home - would be awkward.

Havana is also a decent option although weather and climate could be an issue. Might be awkward if one or more important people went down with a fever or discussions were interrupted by a hurricane.

The more I think about it, the more it seems Halifax, Montreal, or another Canadian city would be a good option, assuming Britain stays out of the war. It's not across the Atlantic, and mail steamers should be capable of getting back to the capitals pretty quickly.

 

[Desert Kid]

Canada is the best neutral ground sans British involvement. So yes, Halifax, Montreal or Toronto.

Toronto would be best given that it was the city with the most facilities for everybody. The media circus would make for a ton of stress, and they would need a city large enough to host it.

 

[OldReliable1862]

Canada is the best neutral ground sans British involvement. So yes, Halifax, Montreal or Toronto.

Toronto would be best given that it was the city with the most facilities for everybody. The media circus would make for a ton of stress, and they would need a city large enough to host it.

Here are the population figures for Canada's largest cities in 1861:

Halifax: 49,021
Montreal: 90,323
Quebec City: 51,109
Toronto: 65,085