Weekend Rifle Identification

[Julian Scott Morris]

Hi!
I was directed to this forum to ask help in identifying a special purchase made in Goshen Connecticut at a local shop. It is a beauty and call to me! It is a percussion rifle .58 cal. Approx. 57" tall. I could not find any information online but I believe that all the experts on civil war era rifles are here at CWT. I will attach pics. Thanks for any help. Scott

 

[captaindrew]

The gun was originally Pattern 53 Enfield rifle musket converted to a sporting gun probably after the Civil War. The P53 was the AK47 of it's day produced by many gunmakers and shipped all over including the US during the Civil War. W Greener was an English gunmaker. The 25 stamp on the barrel indicate it's .577 caliber. I'm far from an expert on these, I'm sure some others will chime in with more info before long.

 

[captaindrew]

Here's what your gun would've looked like originally with some info on the maker.
https://collegehillarsenal.com/Very-Fine-Scarce-Greener-Pattern-1853-Enfield-Rifle-Musket

 

[Julian Scott Morris]

That"s amazing! Thank you!
The barrel and rifling were clean and there was no rust or pitting. The lock worked as is should and I shot 2 .570 unpatched balls with 40gr and 45gr and it was a joy. I hope it isn't considered desicration of an antique firearm but I didn't buy it as an ornament. Thanks again for the history. Scott

 

[captaindrew]

No desecration at all, enjoy shooting it. That's what they were made for. I have no problem with firing original weapons as long as they're in a safe condition to do so. There's several members here that fire original guns.

 

[OldSarge79]

Well, there's something odd about your rifle. The fore end, such as it is, is not in a Pattern 1853 style. It's more like a Brown Bess, with rammer pipes.
The barrel is marked with a double 25 so it is for a Pattern 1853 .577 caliber, the shape of the butt looks like a Pattern 1853, and the inletting for the lock plate is excellent.
Perhaps someone, for whatever reason, cut the fore end to resemble a Brown Bess and attached a base for the rammer pipes.

 

[Julian Scott Morris]

No desecration at all, enjoy shooting it. That's what they were made for. I have no problem with firing original weapons as long as they're in a safe condition to do so. There's several members here that fire original guns.

Thank you the affirmation! I didn't want to foolishly/accidentally destroy a piece to history for my own pleasure. I now feel 100% confident to bring it the range and punch some holes!

 

[Julian Scott Morris]

Well, there's something odd about your rifle. The fore end, such as it is, is not in a Pattern 1853 style. It's more like a Brown Bess, with rammer pipes.
The barrel is marked with a double 25 so it is for a Pattern 1853 .577 caliber, the shape of the butt looks like a Pattern 1853, and the inletting for the lock plate is excellent.
Perhaps someone, for whatever reason, cut the fore end to resemble a Brown Bess and attached a base for the rammer pipes.

It is odd but still skillfully and purposely done by someone in the gun trades of the time. Without everyone's help I would know absolutely nothing about this rifle. Thanks!

 

[Conquerordie]

I don't think there is anything weird about the conversion. They kept most of the original gun, cut the stock back and used regularly encountered civilian parts to make it a Fowler. The forearm tip, pipes, underrib, all common parts. I like it.

 

[Story]

@Julian Scott Morris
Welcome to the CWT Flying Circus.

That's known as an "under rib". Half-stock sporting rifles were a *thing* pre- and post- war.
The rib was a way of reinforcing the ramrod thimbles - note how far from the barrel the thimbles had to be, that space previously having been filled by the forestock wood. Mounting thimbles on their own on a half-stock would have left them on delicate little islands of metal

 

[Julian Scott Morris]

@Julian Scott Morris
Welcome to the CWT Flying Circus.

That's known as an "under rib". Half-stock sporting rifles were a *thing* pre- and post- war.
The rib was a way of reinforcing the ramrod thimbles - note how far from the barrel the thimbles had to be, that space previously having been filled by the forestock wood. Mounting thimbles on their own on a half-stock would have left them on delicate little islands of metal

Thank you!
My crux is being an impulse buyer. I saw beauty in this rifle and pulled the plug on the purchase even though and because I did not find any information on it other than the legendary W. Greener name on the lock and the lack of Google information, plus I really wanted it! I am very pleased and grateful for your fine research and knowledge that it wasn't a basement cob job with a hand saw and a bottle of blueing .Thanks again!

 

[Julian Scott Morris]

I don't think there is anything weird about the conversion. They kept most of the original gun, cut the stock back and used regularly encountered civilian parts to make it a Fowler. The forearm tip, pipes, underrib, all common parts. I like it.

Very cool! Thank you so much your opinion. Being a novice on all things CW related muskets and rifles, I feel the rifle is a gem, but it would have been a bit disconcerting to me if I had been unintentionally misinformed as to its pedigree. Feeling even better! Thanks again! Scott