Muzzleldrs Sharpshooting From Trees?

[gary]

Exactly.
Shooting from a tree can leave you exposed.
Hence the "<>" (not equal to) symbol

If the infantry who are targets of the tree frogs can't retaliate, they asked their pards/comrades at the artillery for help and shooting from trees also meant drawing atrillery fire. Timber! That happened a lot in the Civil War too.

 

[ArcLight]

If the infantry who are targets of the tree frogs can't retaliate, they asked their pards/comrades at the artillery for help and shooting from trees also meant drawing atrillery fire. Timber! That happened a lot in the Civil War too.

Heck, I'd call in some of our sharpshooters.

"Hey John, see that guy in the tree?"

"Sure do! Watch this!"

(Guy in the tree - where are all these bullets coming from?)

 

[gary]

Heck, I'd call in some of our sharpshooters.

"Hey John, see that guy in the tree?"

"Sure do! Watch this!"

(Guy in the tree - where are all these bullets coming from?)

You left out, "Hold my beer...."

If sharpshooters were available they were summoned. There's the story of Old One Eye (Co. K, 1st MSS) who was summoned tto Orlando Wilcox's HQ to remove a pesky Confederate sharpshooter. He arrived, said nothing and sat down and watched. An hour or so later he got up, went into the woods and afterward returned to camp with the laconic report, "Me got him." Old One Eye was later injured and died. His remains were never returned to his tribal lands for burial.

No beer was involved in the removal of the Confederate.

 

[7thWisconsin]

I'm glad YOU said that! The Brits developed 'fire and movement' (one part of a unit putting down covering fire, the other part moving) after the disaster of the first day of the Somme - 'over the top' - expecting he tremendous artillery barrage to wipe out the opposition. What did Pershing do? "During the three hours preceding H hour, the Allies expended more ammunition than both sides managed to fire throughout the four years of the American Civil War"( Artillery Capt. Harry S. Truman). then sent the 'over the top'. First Army casualties were over 9000 men lost and over 100,000 men injured since the start of Meuse-Argonne. it was a relatively quiet part of the front and they had advanced 10 miles - half the distance of their French allies. It was hard replacing those losses and developing a transport network to bring in reinforcements.

The Meuse Argonne was the only major US battle of the Great War. The vast number of the American casualties of the war were suffered during that 6 week time period. It was honestly a disaster. There was only one single volume treatment of it written in 100 years, Our Greatest Battle by Frederick Palmer and it is very jingoistic. Still you can read between the lines and pick out the unflattering performance the journalist is trying to avoid. To Conquer Hell by Edward Lengel is a more honest treatment. (One of my ancestors Walter Smithwas in Battery F, 7th Field Artillery, 1st Division. I have a couple German bullets he picked up off the ground during the Meuse Argonne.)

 

[Old Soldier]

The Meuse Argonne was the only major US battle of the Great War. The vast number of the American casualties of the war were suffered during that 6 week time period. It was honestly a disaster. There was only one single volume treatment of it written in 100 years, Our Greatest Battle by Frederick Palmer and it is very jingoistic. Still you can read between the lines and pick out the unflattering performance the journalist is trying to avoid. To Conquer Hell by Edward Lengel is a more honest treatment. (One of my ancestors Walter Smithwas in Battery F, 7th Field Artillery, 1st Division. I have a couple German bullets he picked up off the ground during the Meuse Argonne.)

My grandad was involved further North with 14th Bn Australian Imperial Force (AIF) - an 'original' - one of the first thousand in his battalion. He survived Gallipoli (1915) where he was wounded, Pozieres (1916) and Bullecourt (1917) (ANZACS will know about this) - and never said a word about it. At Pozieres, his company (B Coy) went into action at midnight 128 strong. After 3½ hours, before the sun was up, only 13 were left standing. He was one of them. Never a mention. i found out from the battalion war diary.

So why bring this up? It is the same with ALL those involved in intense battles. The ones who who tend not to talk were there and it takes DECADES to talk about it, such is the trauma. Im Western, Nicht Neues (All Quiet on the Western Front) by Erich Maria Remarque was published in 1928 - TEN YEARS after the end of the war. Many Civil War recollections took longer. Yet more like All Quiet and Das Boot appeared as novels, so tight were the memories - all based on experience. (Das Boot was set in 1941 but it did not appear, even as a novel, until 1973.)

 

[Bruce Vail]

'Tree Frogs' at Culp's Hill, Gettysburg, July 2-3. 1863

Post in thread '"Tree Frogs"'

Sep 10, 2024

In Edwin Forbes original sketch to the Confederate attack on Culp's Hill at Gettysburg, he included some Confederate snipers firing from high in the trees. When I originally made a similar post some of the comments challenged whether there were actually Rebs in the trees. Since that post, I have read antidotal accounts of early tourists finding dead soldiers up in trees. Also, I have recently been reading Scott Hartwig's new book on Antietam and he recounted a number of times that Union officers were picked off by Confederates in trees. Therefore, based on Forbes' reputation for...

• gjpratt

• 

 

[RetiredCanuck]

Some Union soldiers derogatively referred to Confederate sharpshooters in trees as 'tree frogs'.

Below is a sketch of a tree-perched Confederate sharpshooter that appeared in 'Battles and Leaders of the Civil War' Vol. II (1887), @ page 202. (It's noticeably a concealed and stable treetop position for target firing).
View attachment 587219

I recall a very similar image in th Camp Case Gazette decades ago. I think it was drawn by Marty Brazil.
Interesting guy by the way.
I was talking to him during a quiet moment of filming North and South Part 2. We were both doing Union impression on the day.
He said he was from so far down south (Biloxi?) they called Virginians Yankees.

 

[gary]

Both sides used trees. Why? Superior view and lack of training/supervision telling the shooter that it's an invitation to an early grave.

Early in WW II some GI climbed in trees for PR photos here in America. Instruction was poor at the beginning but improved over time (I read one account where a GI was playing radioman b/c he was moved from platoon sniper. When German snipers took out some GIs, the Lt. shouted, "Andy, get those guys!" Andy dashed into a building and went to the attic and stayed in the shadows (training). He saw one German, fired a shot and ducked to avoid retaliatory fire. He then moved to another position (more training) and then shifted to the non-dominant side so as to take advange of the concealment (again, more training). He took out another German (those guys were poorly trained). Another GI took out a third. Andy got a German sniper rifle as a trophy of war out of it.

Only one Confederate lieutenant (Shannon, he's mentioned by David Minshall in his Whitworth book) instructed his men not to use trees. That's the only example I've found in the Civil War of an enlightened officer. Other officers let the independent sharpshooter fight on their own hook (choose their ground and find targets of opportunities). It's mix-mash and there's no consistency as there was no consistent trainng instruction for either the men or their officers on both sides. Remember the (late enlistment as a reinforcement/replacement) Berdan Sharpshooters who wote his regimental commanderng officer who approved and forwarded it to brigade and then to division for final approval for him to use a personally owned target telescope rifle? He received the approval (and his descendant has a valuable souvenir signed by famous people including Gershom Mott AND the rifle).

 

[Old Soldier]

I recall a very similar image in th Camp Case Gazette decades ago. I think it was drawn by Marty Brazil.
Interesting guy by the way.
I was talking to him during a quiet moment of filming North and South Part 2. We were both doing Union impression on the day.
He said he was from so far down south (Biloxi?) they called Virginians Yankees.

That's like those in Montreal calling folk from Calgary les cow-boys à cheval!!

 

[Old Soldier]

Both sides used trees. Why? Superior view and lack of training/supervision telling the shooter that it's an invitation to an early grave.

Early in WW II some GI climbed in trees for PR photos here in America. Instruction was poor at the beginning but improved over time (I read one account where a GI was playing radioman b/c he was moved from platoon sniper. When German snipers took out some GIs, the Lt. shouted, "Andy, get those guys!" Andy dashed into a building and went to the attic and stayed in the shadows (training). He saw one German, fired a shot and ducked to avoid retaliatory fire. He then moved to another position (more training) and then shifted to the non-dominant side so as to take advange of the concealment (again, more training). He took out another German (those guys were poorly trained). Another GI took out a third. Andy got a German sniper rifle as a trophy of war out of it.

Only one Confederate lieutenant (Shannon, he's mentioned by David Minshall in his Whitworth book) instructed his men not to use trees. That's the only example I've found in the Civil War of an enlightened officer. Other officers let the independent sharpshooter fight on their own hook (choose their ground and find targets of opportunities). It's mix-mash and there's no consistency as there was no consistent trainng instruction for either the men or their officers on both sides. Remember the (late enlistment as a reinforcement/replacement) Berdan Sharpshooters who wote his regimental commanderng officer who approved and forwarded it to brigade and then to division for final approval for him to use a personally owned target telescope rifle? He received the approval (and his descendant has a valuable souvenir signed by famous people including Gershom Mott AND the rifle).

Perhaps one of the reasons was that no one thought the opposition could see them (difficult over 400 + yards) and no one would try to shoot back - except artillery and who would use a 24-pdr to get at a sniper? They had more important targets. Difficult to see - until the first discharge.

What was it they used to say with smokeless ammo?
First shot (and the crack overhead)= aware of a sniper.
Second shot = know which direction to look in
Third shot = know where to aim

The wise sniper would not try a fourth - and most were out after two!!

 

[gary]

Never fire more than one shot from the same position. "Thou shalt not get caught." - Harry Furness.