Confederate buckle.... authentication please.

[rynegold]

I have a friend who has this buckle:

DSC09736 by rynegold, on Flickr

DSC09743 by rynegold, on Flickr

DSC09740 by rynegold, on Flickr

DSC09744 by rynegold, on Flickr

DSC09738 by rynegold, on Flickr

DSC09737 by rynegold, on Flickr

My questions are; is it a genuine buckle? and to what? a waist belt or the cross support strap? (if that's what it's called) And if genuine, it there some distinguishing features that would say "where" this particular example came from?

Any help appreciated...

Regards, mitch

 

[redbob]

While not being able to confirm whether it is definitely genuine or not, I can tell you that it is a waist belt buckle of the "Army of Tennessee" style.

 

[Package4]

Very difficult to tell from photos, this is considered a General Service waist belt buckle of the western theater of the ACW, it is called a "spun hooks" as the hooks were lathed after casting, then bent over. Measurement with a micrometer as to thickness, width and length are always good to start. There were at least three versions of the spun hooks buckle. Does it appear to have black paint in the background?

 

[rynegold]

Well... it's gone home w/my friend. However I was told it was dug (I've no idea by whom, nor where). I certainly didn't see any paint. But now that you mention the "spun" part, it's rather easy to see... and also to duplicate in a copy/fake as well. None the less, perhaps some more comments will clear it up. I didn't measure the thickness but I could get him to bring it back by and do so if I know what's needed in the way of additional measurements

Thanks for the replys!

 

[UCVRelics]

Very difficult to tell from photos, this is considered a General Service waist belt buckle of the western theater of the ACW, it is called a "spun hooks" as the hooks were lathed after casting, then bent over. Measurement with a micrometer as to thickness, width and length are always good to start. There were at least three versions of the spun hooks buckle. Does it appear to have black paint in the background?

Package4 is correct as for needing the measurements. The originals were 46.2mm X 72mm. Most of the repops or fakes were made from the original plates so the thickness is VERY important. Its hard for me to confirm real or fake without me holding it and licking it.

 

[zburkett]

The problem is that Confederate buckles have gotten so expensive that it is worth the expense to make a very good copy. I once was at a gun show and sold a buckle and belt I had bought during the centennial and worn quite a bit. I sold it as such, clearly marked. Later at the same show I saw the same buckle being sold as an original. I even know of one case where an item was apparently dropped by a reenactor, later found, and was trying to be sold as an original. Even the "experts" get into serious arguments as to authentication.

 

[UCVRelics]

I have been fortunate enough to find 5 CS plates in my 45 years of digging and its sad to say but they are the only ones I know that are 110% original.

 

[zburkett]

At present I assume that anything I buy is a reproduction and pay accordingly.

 

[johan_steele]

If it says CS on it I consider it a fake regardless of whose grandmother dug it up. CS items are too easily and too often faked.

 

[Package4]

Many years ago Dave Taylor told me that if you are not sure do not pay more than a McDonald's Happy Meal would cost. Lead backed buckles are easier for me usually due to the amount of lead and hooks used, but unscrupulous individuals have even taken to melting down ACW brass and lead making buckles from original parts of other buckles (arrow and stud hook attachments)

 

[rynegold]

Measurements are: 70.7mm x 46.5mm x (an average of 2.81mm; that being the average of 4 different thicknesses from the back, to the letter top surfaces). The thickness from the back to the field of the letters is, more or less.... 2mm. The weight of the buckle is exactly 61.88 grams. Missing of course, one hook.

edit: I have also found where this came from: it was in scrap brass turned in at a foundry in Ohio.

 

[Package4]

Well the best way to tell at this juncture is to have Steve Mullinax, Mike O'Donnell or Harry Ridgeway look at it and obtain a letter COA if real. There are certainly others out there, but these are the ones I trust. You can insure and send to them and they will charge a small amount to authenticate. You could also go to one of the shows and have them take a look.

 

[Package4]

I would actually have someone look at the plate, they were going for $3,500-$4,000 before the ACW market crashed, but even at half of that, it is worth the effort for a piece picked off the scrap heap.

 

[Legion Para]

Well the best way to tell at this juncture is to have Steve Mullinax, Mike O'Donnell or Harry Ridgeway look at it and obtain a letter COA if real. There are certainly others out there, but these are the ones I trust. You can insure and send to them and they will charge a small amount to authenticate. You could also go to one of the shows and have them take a look.

I heard Steve Mullinax passed away.

 

[redbob]

I heard Steve Mullinax passed away.

He did, in March.

 

[Package4]

I knew he was ill for some time, but had not heard the bad news, great guy and one of the most knowledgeable. He saved me from the clutches of George Juno many years ago.