Accidental Discharge of Firearm

bankerpapaw · Sep 14, 2017

There was a guy in my outfit (3rd Bn 4th Marine Regiment) who shot himself in the foot. He got to go home.

John Winn · Sep 14, 2017

I've read accounts of soldiers purposefully shooting themselves and of surgeons amputating more than necessary when they suspected a self-inflicted wound. It does seem improbable to accidentally shoot oneself in the foot with a period rifle and also improbable that amputation of the whole foot would have been necessary. So, it is a bit dicey.

I went to a boarding school where we were allowed to own firearms (but had to check them out on Saturdays only). A guy shot himself in the foot to get sent home and it worked. Kept his foot, too. I actually thought about it so I can relate a bit to a desperate move of that nature.

Booner · Sep 14, 2017

19thIll said:
"Capped weapon" - can you explain this? Never heard of the term before

I doubt if it's a period term; I meant he had a percussion cap on the nipple, (a "capped" weapon), so if he had a loaded weapon, it was ready to fire. If the weapon had a faulty lock, (wouldn't hold on half cock), or (gasp!) he had the hammer on full cock it was ready to "rock & roll." I would assume that while on picket duty he had a charge down the barrel, lock on half cock, but no cap on the nipple. It would only take seconds to cap the weapon, pull the hammer to full cock and fire.

I believe I've read accounts when pickets came off duty, they would discharge the weapon by firing the charge, so one could assume the they did picket duty with a charge down the barrel.

jekct1212 · Sep 14, 2017

If it was raining the stance for a man on picket duty would be holding the gun in the right hand angled towards the ground with the lock facing the ground. He could have been standing like this and was playing with the trigger and shot his foot, considering its 1861 he might very well have had a smoothbore musket or shotgun in witch case he would have had buck shot loaded so he wouldn't have had to be pointing directly at his foot.

19thIll · Sep 14, 2017

jekct1212 said:
If it was raining the stance for a man on picket duty would be holding the gun in the right hand angled towards the ground with the lock facing the ground.

Thanks for this lead! I was wondering if there was any reason for it to be pointed down. Off to research weather patterns in 1861!

chucksr · Sep 14, 2017

There are all sorts of ways to accidentally shoot oneself. Beyond playing with the trigger or hammer, one could drop the weapon, lean it up against a wall, tree, bush, etc and have it fall and discharge, stumble and fall on the gun, all ways that a long weapon could harm a person in the lower extremities. It's not hard to imagine how an inexperienced, or even experienced soldier could shoot himself in the leg.

19thIll · Sep 15, 2017

chucksr said:
There are all sorts of ways to accidentally shoot oneself. Beyond playing with the trigger or hammer, one could drop the weapon, lean it up against a wall, tree, bush, etc and have it fall and discharge, stumble and fall on the gun, all ways that a long weapon could harm a person in the lower extremities. It's not hard to imagine how an inexperienced, or even experienced soldier could shoot himself in the leg.

That's true, I was thinking the same thing but was hoping to consider other options than dumb luck

damYankee · Sep 23, 2017

Without knowing all the details of this particular incident all we can do is guess.
But the question lead me to recall the common observations of those who collected arms from battlefields, finding weapons with multiple loads. I wonder how many weapons were actually fired with multiple loads in them, injuring the shooter and by standees?
It also brings up the question of unloading a weapon. What was the general procedure for a sentry standing watch with a loaded weapon when he was relieved?
Wouldn't he have to either discharge the weapon or remove the load from the barrel? You couldn't just leave a load in the barrel as the powder would foul.
It would be reasonable to assume that in some situations sentries would just discharge the weapon into the ground instead of using a auger but to disload, in the process end up either shooting himself or being hit by a ricochet from another sentry.
Just throwing it out.

kevikens · Sep 23, 2017

I have owned and fired dozens of muzzle loaders in my senior citizen lifetime. I was one of the first certified instructors in my state when it adopted a muzzle loading deer season and safety of the neophyte user was paramount in our instruction. Once a cap lock is capped it can be set off accidentally. First, if the hammer is directly on the cap and it is banged, it may go off. Even if it is in the half cock position, a hard blow can allow it to snap forward. If such a capped weapon is pulled from a wagon and the hammer catches on something on the way out it can go to full cock and another snag in the trigger guard and it's a big bang. One of the most surprising statistics I ever saw related to the number of pioneers on the Oregon trail who managed to shoot themselves taking capped guns from out of their wagons. Did I ever accidentally discharge a muzzle loader? No, but on a few well used, older guns the sear was well worn and it did not take much to set it off.

NH Civil War Gal · Sep 23, 2017

I did a shooting jamboree last June and got to use a muzzle loader twice. The fellow and I talked about the CW and he told me that at Springfield Amory in Mass, after the war, they found a muzzle loader with 13 charges in it. I asked how that could be and the instructor said in the heat of battle you wouldn't really know if the gun went off or not and kept loading it. So.... the big question is - why didn't this thing explode at some point with all these charges in it?

Booner · Sep 23, 2017

NH Civil War Gal said:
So.... the big question is - why didn't this thing explode at some point with all these charges in it?

If the nipple got plugged, or fouling in the breach area of the barrel accumulated to such a level that the path between the flame of the percussion cap to the powder charge in the barrel was plugged, then there would not be a clear path for the "spark" that the percussion cap furnished to set off the main powder charge in the barrel. Black powder, when fired, produces a lot of residue which remains in the barrel. Loading another round pushes all of this residue down to the breach area and could result in a non-firing condition.

In the excitement and noise of battle, the shooter keeps on loading and "snapping caps" but doesn't realize the weapon is not discharging.

If the shooter did manages to fire his musket with that much powder and lead in the barrel, there's a good chance the barrel would over pressurize and rupture.

huskerblitz · Sep 23, 2017

I've come across many accounts of 'accidental discharges' in soldier's reminiscences. Most I think were harmless, but a few caused injury and some resulted in deaths of fellow soldiers.

mofederal · Sep 23, 2017

I remember one story about a drummer boy putting a damaged rifle barrel over a fire for a time, and then it blew up. He lost his hands. My only question was why no one stopped him from putting the barrel in the fire. The story implied there were multiple loads in the barrel. I wish I could remember where I read it.

East Tennessee Roots · Sep 24, 2017

Confederate Private Robert Kurtz Staten served in Company D 63rd Tennessee.

Robert survived the Battle of Chickamauga, but while on guard duty November 26, 1863, he accidentally shot off his right index finger. He was sent to the hospital at Loudon, Tennessee.
He was there for a week or so but was captured on December 3, 1863. He was then sent to the Federal Prison at Louisville, Kentucky. Robert remained at the Louisville Prison until January 17, 1864 until he was transferred to the prison at Rock Island, Illinois. He was there until March 6, 1865. He was then sent to Richmond, Virginia for a prisoner exchange which occurred on March 10, 11 and 12, 1865.

frankconrad · Sep 24, 2017

When they were developing the 1855 they loaded it with multiple loads until it could no longer blow the loads out the barrel and have it just make aloud whistle. they were unable to rupture a barrel with multiple loads.
Very few ML weapons ever ruptured the barrel if used with black powder

damYankee · Sep 25, 2017

kevikens said:
I have owned and fired dozens of muzzle loaders in my senior citizen lifetime. I was one of the first certified instructors in my state when it adopted a muzzle loading deer season and safety of the neophyte user was paramount in our instruction. Once a cap lock is capped it can be set off accidentally. First, if the hammer is directly on the cap and it is banged, it may go off. Even if it is in the half cock position, a hard blow can allow it to snap forward. If such a capped weapon is pulled from a wagon and the hammer catches on something on the way out it can go to full cock and another snag in the trigger guard and it's a big bang. One of the most surprising statistics I ever saw related to the number of pioneers on the Oregon trail who managed to shoot themselves taking capped guns from out of their wagons. Did I ever accidentally discharge a muzzle loader? No, but on a few well used, older guns the sear was well worn and it did not take much to set it off.

That's great insightful information. What was the standard operating method, if there was one at all, for sentries?
I have no idea on this question, I'm just throwing it out there.

chucksr · Sep 25, 2017

I can't imagine, given the responsibilities of a sentry and of the officer of the guard, that firearms weren't loaded and capped. If you are protecting something that was critical to security of the post then why would you want an unarmed sentry? I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule for ceremonial sentries, etc. but in the field I would think loaded arms were the rule.

zburkett · Sep 25, 2017

In one of my books (I can't remember which one) there is an account of a soldier intentionally shooting himself in the foot to get out of battle and the doctor amputated the foot out of spite. I also had a friend who was Dove hunting and rested the barrel of her shotgun on her boot to keep it out of the dirt and shot her toe off yanking the gun up as a Dove flew by. I have read that in Rome's later days there were those who would cut their thumb off so they would not have to serve with the Legions. Self inflicted intentional wounds go way back but I would think that if it appeared intentional the record would say so.

damYankee · Sep 25, 2017

chucksr said:
I can't imagine, given the responsibilities of a sentry and of the officer of the guard, that firearms weren't loaded and capped. If you are protecting something that was critical to security of the post then why would you want an unarmed sentry? I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule for ceremonial sentries, etc. but in the field I would think loaded arms were the rule.

But when a sentry returned to camp, would they unload, or maybe remove the cap?

chucksr · Sep 25, 2017

damYankee said:
But when a sentry returned to camp, would they unload, or maybe remove the cap?

That I don't know. I'm sure that removing the cap would suffice to make the firearm safe but how long a charge could remain in the barrel without "spoiling" I don't know. Perhaps one of our members with some familiarity with this type of weapon could chime in here with some first hand info??

Accidental Discharge of Firearm

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