Lincoln (2012)

[Bryan_C]

the perfect end shot was in the movie (Lincoln walking down the hallway alone, bound for Ford's Theater) but they kept going for some reason.

That's a good point. It's not like we don't know what happenes to Lincoln.

 

[AndyHall]

I can see that as a dramatic finale, he wanted to focus on Tad, which is something that's little-discussed in the assassination story. Through the whole film we've become attached to Tad, and come to understand the bond between him and his father, which makes that ending all the more wrenching. It shows Lincoln's murder less as a national tragedy -- been there, done that -- than a human one.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

Hmm. Maybe. Still not the choice I'd have made, but I can see your point.

 

[AndyHall]

I think it works because when the scene cuts to the theater, the viewer assumes it's Ford's Theater, and we're going to witness the assassination. Then you realize it's a different theater, and different play. It's clever.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

I think it works because when the scene cuts to the theater, the viewer assumes it's Ford's Theater, and we're going to witness the assassination. Then you realize it's a different theater, and different play. It's clever.

Definitely got me on that one, though my immediate reaction was "Hey, Tad wasn't at Ford's!"

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

My favorite moments of the film have to be the sequence in the War Department where they're waiting for news from Fort Fisher, and Lincoln starts to tell a story; Stanton doesn't wait to listen to it, but stomps off in exasperation.

Another favorite moment is when Lincoln finally meets Seward's henchmen, and starts giving them pointers on how to do the final arm-twisting for votes.

Oh... and any part of the movie where Tommy Lee Jones is going full-tilt. A little salt with that scenery, Mr. Jones?

 

[Bryan_C]

Definitely got me on that one, though my immediate reaction was "Hey, Tad wasn't at Ford's!"

For a split-second, I thought it was Ford's, too. But then I saw the play was not Our American Cousin. Then I remembered that Taddie went to see Aladdin. But I imagine this left a lot of people confused.

I really liked the scene with Lincoln in conversation with the Black soldiers because I don't believe there's ever been a movie which featured such a moment- Lincoln having a conversation with a Black person. I know there were some USCT units that trained in the District of Columbia and the 1st USCT was mustered in DC. I believe Lincoln must have spoken to Black soldiers at some point and I think it would have been very important for him to do so. And the scene is to set up the whole idea that the civil rights these soldiers are fighting for- and might die for- have to begin with the abolition of slavery.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

I really liked the scene with Lincoln in conversation with the Black soldiers because I don't believe there's ever been a movie which featured such a moment- Lincoln having a conversation with a Black person. I know there were some USCT units that trained in the District of Columbia and the 1st USCT was mustered in DC. I believe Lincoln must have spoken to Black soldiers at some point and I think it would have been very important for him to do so. And the scene is to set up the whole idea that the civil rights these soldiers are fighting for- and might die for- have to begin with the abolition of slavery.

I don't object to the scene per se, even though it's not based on any specific event that I'm aware of... and unless I'm wrong, they were talking about being in action at Jenkins Ferry, which was out in the Trans-Mississippi, which doesn't make any sense in a near-Washington location... but I thought the writing in that scene was about as subtle as a sledgehammer on a tin roof. My two cents.

 

[AndyHall]

Stanton doesn't wait to listen to it, but stomps off in exasperation.

Stanton was played by the great character actor (and Texan*) Bruce McGill, who really does match Tommy Lee Jones in intensity, for the amount of screen time he gets. He's also the actor who played D-Day, the guy with the motorcycle, in Animal House back in the day.

* Yes, we're insufferable, I know.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

He made a great Stanton.

 

[cash]

Stanton was played by the great character actor (and Texan*) Bruce McGill, who really does match Tommy Lee Jones in intensity, for the amount of screen time he gets. He's also the actor who played D-Day, the guy with the motorcycle, in Animal House back in the day.

* Yes, we're insufferable, I know.

And he was "that reprobate" Walter Hagen in "The Legend of Bagger Vance."

 

[Battalion]

Tried to watch it on demand. I lasted about 5 minutes. Lincoln is sitting and talking to some soldiers and they are asking him questions and telling him what he should be doing. I left.

My review: TV movie/documentary type quality with some top-notch actors...but even they can't save the dreg.
A major borefest.

Might take another whack later but I doubt it.

Watching grass grow is more exciting.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

 

[101combatvet]

My review: TV movie/documentary type quality with some top-notch actors...but even they can't save the dreg.
A major borefest.

Watching grass grow is more exciting.

Spielberg can never cut the mustard the way I like it.

 

[rpkennedy]

We were all completely shocked by that revelation, Mark.

R

 

[KansasFreestater]

My favorite moments of the film have to be the sequence in the War Department where they're waiting for news from Fort Fisher, and Lincoln starts to tell a story; Stanton doesn't wait to listen to it, but stomps off in exasperation.

Another favorite moment is when Lincoln finally meets Seward's henchmen, and starts giving them pointers on how to do the final arm-twisting for votes.

Oh... and any part of the movie where Tommy Lee Jones is going full-tilt. A little salt with that scenery, Mr. Jones?

Bilbo: "Well, I'll be f*****!"
Lincoln: "I wouldn't bet against it."

My favorite lines in the whole movie.

 

[John Hartwell]

Very eloquent, Mr. Jenkins. And appropriate.
It should be added to our "Original Quotes..." thread.

 

[KansasFreestater]

I saw it last night with my History Club (we watch period movies and historical documentaries and then discuss them) and I didn't think the USCT cavalry soldier spoke disrespectfully to the President at all. He spoke to Lincoln about the disparity in pay between Black soldiers and White soldiers; acknowledged that issue had been resolved; but then wanted to know when Blacks would be allowed to become Army officers. I didn't see where he was "disrespectful" in his conversation or tone in any way. As a soldier putting his life on the line, I believe the man had a right to ask that question. And as commander-in-chief, I believe the President had a responsibilty to address it. Besides, I've seen plenty of movies with Lincoln in them for years where the main character(s) or common people approach Lincoln and ask "When is (this or that) going to happen?" So though I question if that scene was something that actually happened I don't see it as any different than any other time in other films.

I also disagree with you that Lincoln's efforts to see the 13th Amendment passed were inaccurately shown as more important than getting reelected and winning the war. The film is set in early 1865, so the 1864 election is no longer an issue. And the whole point of the movie is to show that ending slavery and Union victory are equally important and the drama presents a scenario where both may not be possible together.

I thought the movie was excellent. Do you what feel is best for you but if the scene where he spoke to both Black and White soldiers and they quoted the Gettysburg Address was not accurate (and I'm thinking a lot of artistic license was at work there), I see it as a small price to pay for a very good and dramatic movie.

Wish I could quadruple-like this post. Yes, yes and yes!!!

 

[Bryan_C]

Wish I could quadruple-like this post. Yes, yes and yes!!!

Thanks very much, KansasFreeStater. I'm touched by your compliments.

 

[KansasFreestater]

Thanks very much, KansasFreeStater. I'm touched by your compliments.

Well, you said everything I wanted to say, and said it better than I would have. And did a great job of refuting some of the points made by other commenters whom I disagreed with!