Are C.W. Reenactors Egotistical?

[Trooper "D"]

Today, we had an in-depth discussion at the shop in Gettysburg about Civil War reenactors and their egos within the hobby.

One topic that came up was the excessive amount of God-awful gaudy color trim on cheaply made uniforms, including hat cords, brass/state buttons, and buckles. We also noted the presence of modern two-piece Adirondack chairs and various other items that many reenactors, especially newcomers, consider acceptable to bring and use at events.

Particularly, we highlighted the overly extravagant display of colored trim on uniforms.

The issue of egos arises because many Civil War reenactors either lack awareness or simply do not care about being period-correct in their impressions. It seems to be more about the "look-at-me" factor.

Seeing these issues at almost all events makes me cringe, and I feel the urge to approach these individuals and remove the unnecessary trim for the sake of preserving the integrity of the hobby... View attachment 543538

Its the thievery out West that is the problem. If new troops use off the rack sutler stuff after a few events they will look broken in enough. Will they show up to training events and learn marching into line as the real question. There should be a board of director type of thing for authentic uniforms and equipment regulations. Confederate cavalryman with mustard yellow all over the place drives me wild but if they move by command Im not so worried about it.

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

Uhh, I think there's been a tone shift on the discussion. To some degree. I'm just gonna throw this out there.

Are a lot of the gripes about people on all sides of reenacting true?

I would say yes. If it weren't, there wouldn't be this discussion. Or discussions….

Are a lot of the defenses of people valid?

Also yes. I know some of the best people I've ever known, were reenactors. People with the highest moral character, people I've admired.

Yes there's "keyboard warriors" and other complete imbeciles, and in my experience they're often a different person, in person. But there are bad apples. From all I've seen, I halfway wonder if it's the good people refusing to stand up, or even recognize a bad apple, and cause drama, (drama that I feel shouldn't exist as well) to remove said bad apples from the hobby. No one wants to be a bad guy.

So I say instead of arguing whether there's true good or true evil have you in the hobby, is a terrible discussion to have that's self defeating. We need to recognize the hobby has the same issues as modern society at large, because it's participates are drawn from society.

Lord knows I've known some real so's and so's in the hobby that I'd characterize as trouble, along with all the good folks I've always known and been proud to know.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

I wonder if some of the different attitudes towards reenacting are related, at least in part, to why the person is a reenactor.

Are they a Civil War reenactor because they love Civil War history and wanted to get more into that specific historical event? Or did they want to get into reenacting because the acting and costuming appealed to them, and happened to choose the Civil War because of friends already involved, ancestors they know served, or simply proximity to a battlefield, annual event, or an established unit?

Do dedicated Civil War reenactors tend to have different attitudes about the hobby than people who reenact not only the Civil War but also WW2 and the American Revolution?

Do actual military veterans, especially combat vets, have different attitudes towards reenacting than their civilian counterparts?

 

[RedRover]

Do actual military veterans, especially combat vets, have different attitudes towards reenacting than their civilian counterparts?

Not from what I saw over a period of a few decades. The veterans and non-veterans reacted to the rules of the hobby similarly. I recall noticing many of the veterans generally could "about face" much more handily than otherwise.

 

[PrivateBrooke]

It varies so much from unit to unit and event to event it's hard to answer the age question. You definitely see a lot more younger people at the stricter events. My home unit is actually a younger group and we attend both mainstream and some campaigner events but we always pack light. I'm 54 and the oldest active member of our group. We have a couple teenagers but most of the guys are in their 30s. There's another group in our area where I think I'd be one of the younger guys. They certainly aren't doing much campaigning. As far as rank goes I think most guys are perfectly happy as privates with no responsibility, I know I was for a lot of years before I was talked into taking any kind of rank. You need to watch out for the guys that are overly eager for rank, they don't usually want it for the right reasons.

I'm perfectly happy being a private. I begged to be relieved of corporal, and only said I would take on officer rank to get our now former Lt out because nobody liked him in that role, and I'm on the very short list of people my captain trusts. It turns out I don't have to do that yet, thank the reenacting gods. Yeah be weary of anyone too eager for officer duties.

 

[7thWisconsin]

I wonder if some of the different attitudes towards reenacting are related, at least in part, to why the person is a reenactor.

Are they a Civil War reenactor because they love Civil War history and wanted to get more into that specific historical event? Or did they want to get into reenacting because the acting and costuming appealed to them, and happened to choose the Civil War because of friends already involved, ancestors they know served, or simply proximity to a battlefield, annual event, or an established unit?

Do dedicated Civil War reenactors tend to have different attitudes about the hobby than people who reenact not only the Civil War but also WW2 and the American Revolution?

Do actual military veterans, especially combat vets, have different attitudes towards reenacting than their civilian counterparts?

I´m one of those multi-period reenactors. I think it comes from a general love of history, and also a love of reenacting. As my life has developed, the different periods allow me to do things that I do well (or passably well) as well as experience different things. I play a lot of music, and several different musical instruments. The music, style and playing technique are different in 1756, 1863 and 1944. I try to bring that to my impression. I want it to be something other than just another way to carry a gun, sleep on the ground and fry eggs over a fire. I want to bring some appreciation of the culture I´m portraying to the impression.
I don´t think there is one single veteran response to the reenacting experience. I know veterans who are at all points along the hobby continuum from farb to mainstream to c/p/h. Sometimes they need to remember that the former army is not the one they served in and that things were done differently. Sometimes they´re reliving some of the things that they enjoyed doing, or remember the challenges met, but in reality, the milage is different for every person and individual motivations will vary.

 

[JackADriscoll]

A lot of vets miss the comraderie that came with sharing unfortunate conditions together. Like yeah its unpleasant but it's unpleasant for all of us. I think reenacting can provide that

 

[James Brenner]

A lot of vets miss the comraderie that came with sharing unfortunate conditions together. Like yeah it's unpleasant but it's unpleasant for all of us. I think reenacting can provide that

True. And our phrase to each other was, "Embrace the suck."

 

[The Ninth Ohio]

True. And our phrase to each other was, "Embrace the suck."

Campaigner organizers choosing to hold events far enough away from your car to make it incredibly inconvenient to leave because of a few drops of water really helped the hobby in that regard. At that point you throw up your hands and there's where the "fun" begins.

 

[bayonet]

I´m one of those multi-period reenactors. I think it comes from a general love of history, and also a love of reenacting. As my life has developed, the different periods allow me to do things that I do well (or passably well) as well as experience different things. I play a lot of music, and several different musical instruments. The music, style and playing technique are different in 1756, 1863 and 1944. I try to bring that to my impression. I want it to be something other than just another way to carry a gun, sleep on the ground and fry eggs over a fire. I want to bring some appreciation of the culture I´m portraying to the impression.
I don´t think there is one single veteran response to the reenacting experience. I know veterans who are at all points along the hobby continuum from farb to mainstream to c/p/h. Sometimes they need to remember that the former army is not the one they served in and that things were done differently. Sometimes they´re reliving some of the things that they enjoyed doing, or remember the challenges met, but in reality, the milage is different for every person and individual motivations will vary.

What you got fried eggs over a fire! All I ever got was hardtack, greasy fat bacon, the rare apple, and coffee with no cream, not even favored creamer.

 

[iron bender]

I agree with SamV. We had a large company of Federal infantry here in Tx/La/Ms back in the 80's, 90's through about 2002. We were hard core sack coat/black hat/brogans and basic gear outfit that slept in the mud. It was a lot of fun when we were young and could spare the time, travel up north/back east to an event once a year, hit all the local La./Ms. event throughout the year. Then real life happened for most of us including actual war, starting families, adult school, work, etc. Fast forward to now, (for those who made it) were all in our late 40's-50's. We're gonna hit Pleasant Hill La, in April, one event a year, simply as a reunion of sorts. We're sticking to the same thing we always did, plane jane grunt Yankee infantry. But now I run a machine shop 6 days a week, have sons that are in minimum high school and college, blah blah. If we go to P-Hill and it's freezing cold and raining, I'm out. Am I gonna take a cooler of well hidden beer? Yep. I'll take a couple potatoes, an onion and some bacon to cook in my canteen half pan. We'll sleep on our ponchos and blankets under the stars. It's one weekend, no shelter necessary and starving is unlikely. Again, anything that would cause me to miss a week of work is not happening (week off also equals doing something with fam). Another reason a 'campaigner' event doesn't need my presence. That's for those guys. I also don't require a truckload of camping stuff to tough it out for 3 days. I guess I'm an 'in-betweener'.
I'll post a comparison pic of us as young guys vs. a bunch of old guys in a few weeks. Should be depressing

Well 8 of us made it out for the annual. Stayed two days and two nights. We didn't stay in our old rifle pits from 35 years ago out in the woods, but we did stick to rubber blankets and army blankets. Great time and I think our close order drill is as good or better than anyone else out there. We're just old now. A kind captain allowed our tiny platoon to fall in their ranks. It's amazing covering the last 20 years without seeing each other. I'm the baby of the group at 49 with our oldest guy being 58. Known these dudes since I was south of 10 years old. We spent many nights being miserable back in the 80's and 90's. It makes for lots of great memory talk tall story bs sitting around the fire enjoying a beverage! We'd annually hit P-Hill, Vicksburg, Raymond/Champion Hill, Port Hudson, Harrisonburg, and Prairie Grove or something in Oklahoma every now and then. We also made Bull Run, Shiloh, Corinth, Gettysburg for the 125th, and Shiloh, Gettysburg, and Franklin for the 150th. That was pretty close to the end for our Civil War go. Heck of a ride and I'm glad we'll be able to get together once a year for P-Hill moving forward. Here's a pic of me, Ryan, Will up front and Melvin and Shawn in back, sitting on the porch of a house plenty here will recognize. Funny how all the gear I got at Shiloh in 1987 managed to shrink in the closet. My cartridge box was the only thing that still fit!

 

[iron bender]

I said I'd post before and after. Here's part of our platoon in 1992 at Vicksburg. Everyone in pic above is in this pic. I'm in middle with infantry horn on my hat (I bought that hat brand new at the North and South film set in Corinth with all the frill, folded up, feather etc from Al Schlachter) it ended life with nothing but the regiment numbers sewn in place....in the current pic on the porch the guy sitting next to me is the far left corporal and the far right guy is the far right guy in Vicksburg pic. Really great crew and yes I'm egotistical when it comes to my old boys!

 

[JHughes81]

I said I'd post before and after. Here's part of our platoon in 1992 at Vicksburg. Everyone in pic above is in this pic. I'm in middle with infantry horn on my hat (I bought that hat brand new at the North and South film set in Corinth with all the frill, folded up, feather etc from Al Schlachter) it ended life with nothing but the regiment numbers sewn in place....in the current pic on the porch the guy sitting next to me is the far left corporal and the far right guy is the far right guy in Vicksburg pic. Really great crew and yes I'm egotistical when it comes to my old boys!

View attachment 546090

Love to see and hear it! Made ME smile. Thank you for sharing.

I'm reading through this thread BACK again, following my 1st ever event this past weekend. Instant nostalgia. I'm probably gonna post something about my time this weekend. I'm SOLD, that's for sure!

 

[Trooper "D"]

I said I'd post before and after. Here's part of our platoon in 1992 at Vicksburg. Everyone in pic above is in this pic. I'm in middle with infantry horn on my hat (I bought that hat brand new at the North and South film set in Corinth with all the frill, folded up, feather etc from Al Schlachter) it ended life with nothing but the regiment numbers sewn in place....in the current pic on the porch the guy sitting next to me is the far left corporal and the far right guy is the far right guy in Vicksburg pic. Really great crew and yes I'm egotistical when it comes to my old boys!

View attachment 546090

Having both love for and pride of your messmates is not egotistical. Thanks for sharing.
Cheers

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

Having both love for and pride of your messmates is not egotistical. Thanks for sharing.
Cheers

Fully agree with you!

 

[Story]

True. And our phrase to each other was, "Embrace the suck."

I suspect that's been a thing since Caeser's Legions

amplexare difficultates​

 

[RetiredCanuck]

Maybe a few thoughts from an old warhorse?

And I mean old. I stopped reenacting 20 years ago because I was too old. (I am 70 now.)

One of the harsh realities those in the hobby need to face is the human factor.

You can have top-of-the-line quality gear and still spoil your impression.

It only takes one fool to ruin an entire battle line. You've seen them. Hands in their pockets. Laughing. Chewing gum. Giving the finger to anyone who'll watch. Not knowing the manual of arms. Suicide charge into opponent's lines at every event.

Do you salute properly and at the appropriate time? Come to attention and face him, when an officer comes into the camp? Stay in camp during the day? Be present for duty at first call at 7am? Stay sober during the day? Is your weapon clean and ready for inspection every morning? Take your turn at picket duty as required?

Does your unit have a proper roll call at events? Maybe a pay parade once in a while? Bayonet drill? Do you know the historical names of your company, regimental and division commander? Can you name your state governor? The mayor of your home city? Who was the Pope then? Do you have any letters from home?

Do your NCOs do their job properly? Discipline comes from authority and respect, not from punishment. Are the field ranks of your unit appropriate to your unit size and number of attendees at the event?

Do you act like a man in the 1860's? Shirt and hat on while out in public. Uniform jacket or vest on and done up. Tip your hat to a lady. Open doors for her. (As an aside I think that tradition started when skirts became so large in diameter that the woman in question could not reach the handle before her skirt hit the door.)

Reading and spreading knowledge to each other is the best way to improve on much of the above. And practice of course.

Let's get back to the old warhorse thought. One of the harder things to ignore is that reenactors are as a group somewhat older than the troops they are portraying. With that comes obvious physical dissimilarities as well. It's an expensive pastime and typically the younger recruits just don't have the funds to equip themselves and pay for event trips.

Issue uniforms same in only four sizes and the jackets were tailored for men with waistlines 4-6" smaller than their chest size. If this is not you it is not meant as a judgement, simply a reality that has to be recognized.

Just food for thought. I hope I don't get flamed for this LOL.

 

[Specster]

Im not "in" on reenactments...I dont think it honors the men that actually did the deed by any strech and the "defarbed" weapons only make it more difficult to know what is authentic and what is not....Ive met people in my life who give knee jerk reactions when asked a question so they can come off with the smell of an expert.....when one starts putting maker markers and inspector marks on reproductions...Im out

 

[SethJ]

Im not "in" on reenactments...I dont think it honors the men that actually did the deed by any strech and the "defarbed" weapons only make it more difficult to know what is authentic and what is not....Ive met people in my life who give knee jerk reactions when asked a question so they can come off with the smell of an expert.....when one starts putting maker markers and inspector marks on reproductions...Im out

That sounds more like you ARE trying to do the men justice by holding ones self up to the standard and look of a man from the time... I think some forget that people reenact to try and honor the memory of somebody who served.
And perhaps not everybody is there for the history... Maybe you can't be 100% authentic. Maybe you can't take a bullet or cannonball like they did...
But you can bring memory to those who fell and fought. You can bring people into more knowledge of the civil war. Perhaps you can show them what an authentic piece would look like.

I understand why some people, as yourself, may he reserved when it comes to reenactments. I do believe some people do make a mockery and do a disservice to the time and people.. But to believe that being authentic makes it worse is quite unfortunate. When saying a reenactment is bad because it has little authenticity, but then saying it's bad because it's too realistic.. it's an way of looking at things.

 

[iron bender]

Im not "in" on reenactments...I dont think it honors the men that actually did the deed by any strech and the "defarbed" weapons only make it more difficult to know what is authentic and what is not....Ive met people in my life who give knee jerk reactions when asked a question so they can come off with the smell of an expert.....when one starts putting maker markers and inspector marks on reproductions...Im out

I agree. I also loved going to events growing up because we had a big infantry company and some of these guys are lifelong friends today. Being in the field together and suffering on weekends made it fun. The idea that any of these get togethers give a reality of what it was like is silly. You can be cold and soaked to the bone with all the right stuff, but you get to go home on Sunday. I'm still a gear junky and love camping and burning powder, and most importantly, the story of the Civil War. Combine those things and you get 'reenacting'. This weird hobby is something different for each participant. It is a fun hobby. Glad me and some of old buddies got back together for the first time in 20 years at Pleasant Hill this last April. All new gear!