Have you seen instances of soldiers using a folded blanket as a flack jacket?

[Rhea Cole]

This is not by any measure your everyday Civil War question. In fact, the query requires quite an interesting preamble to make any sense at all.

In the linked article about Lt Col Joseph Bill's "Treatment on Arrow Wounds" ( original copies +/-) $600 ) is a reference to something I never heard of before.

During the Indian Wars infantrymen folded their blankets & wrapped it around to form a sort of flack jacket. It was, apparently, a useful defense against arrow wounds.

Arrow Wounds

There is ample historical evidence to support the concept. Spanish conquistadors adopted the highly effective layered cotton body armor worn by Aztec & Inca warriors.

Link:

Weapons and Armor of the Spanish Conquistadors - How to Peru

The weapons and armor of the Spanish conquistadors gave them a number of distinct advantages in their conquest of the New World, including against the Incas.

howtoperu.com

I know there was a lot of wacky body armor discarded during1860-61. Has anyone seen an instance of folded blankets being used as flack jackets during the Civil War… discounting troops on the Western frontier?

 

[DixieRifles]

Good question. But I hope it did stop a .58 Minie. If not, the bullet may drag all that filthy cloth into the wound.

 

[G Low]

This conquistador had to put on a corset to get this outfit on. How you like his fancy skirt?

 

[Rhea Cole]

Good question. But I hope it did stop a .58 Minie. If not, the bullet may drag all that filthy cloth into the wound.

I thought about that, too. However, it might stop or impede shell fragments or balls from case shot traveling at low velocity. I have read of balls bouncing off cross belts, for example.

Dr Bill reported multiple arrow wounding on a single victim. Being on the receiving end of multiple well aimed arrows would have been terrifying, no doubt.

I can easily see where a soldier whose over the shoulder blanket roll had stopped an arrow would use a folded blanket as a flack jacket.

 

[G Low]

Looks to me like they were pretty much covered. Don't know if this would stop a mini ball ? No face shield.. hate to have an arrow in the face.. ouch..

 

[Rhea Cole]

Looks to me like they were pretty much covered. Don't know if this would stop a mini ball ? No face shield.. hate to have an arrow in the face.. ouch..View attachment 526321

The answer is YES! The quality & thickness of this metal absorbed & deflected matchlock balls. The inner breast plate stopped the spall.

The answer is NO for the common soldier's armor.

In the PBS NOVA Science program 'Secrets of the Shining Knight' a replica of the best armor was created from scratch. Only a small number of these suits were ordered from an illustrated catalogue.

Link to firing tests:

Musket v Medieval Armor | WETA

Knights and firearms clashed on the battlefield for over 200 years. Did some of these warriors have armor strong enough to stop bullets?

weta.org

 

[Rhea Cole]

Good question. But I hope it did stop a .58 Minie. If not, the bullet may drag all that filthy cloth into the wound.

This link is to a PBS NOVA Science program. What isn't obvious is that the angled potbellied shape of the breast plate deflected projectiles. A bodkin pointed crossbow bolt was very capable of penetrating common plate. There is a second breastplate that absorbs spall or penetrating projectiles.

Link to matchlock firing test:

Musket v Medieval Armor | WETA

Knights and firearms clashed on the battlefield for over 200 years. Did some of these warriors have armor strong enough to stop bullets?

weta.org

 

[Rhea Cole]

This is a link to the entire 'Secrets of the Shining Knight' program. The creation of the metal plates from scratch are a real education. As is the shaping & decorating of the breastplate.

Link:

terra nullius - NOVA - Secrets of the Shining Knight (full episode)

This is "NOVA - Secrets of the Shining Knight (full episode)" by rebecca brillhart on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

vimeopro.com

 

[Story]

A folded blanket is more analogous to padded/quilted armor, not plate armor.

Gambeson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rhea Cole]

A folded blanket is more analogous to padded/quilted armor, not plate armor.

Gambeson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Have you read the link to the padded cotton armor that the Spaniards adopted from the Aztecs & Incas? It is a well written essay on the topic.

Link:

Weapons and Armor of the Spanish Conquistadors - How to Peru

The weapons and armor of the Spanish conquistadors gave them a number of distinct advantages in their conquest of the New World, including against the Incas.

howtoperu.com

 

[Joe Whitworth]

Very interesting proposition but a folded blanket would be poor defense against most bullets. I use a box stuffed full of folded over worn out jeans about a foot or so thick to stop high powered air gun pellets in my basement. I've even used it capture 9mm Luger and .45 ACP full metal jacket bullets a time or two. A.45 went about 2/3 the way thru with the 9mm stopping around 3/4. Next time I have a chance I will put it to the test with both .36 and .44 Colt revolvers with a good stiff loads for comparison and maybe even a Enfield rifle and report back. How the soft lead lead bullets will react to the denim I'm not sure, they may deform and penetrate less well. I do know my hard cast Whitworth bullets would go thru a foot of denim like butter.

 

[RedRover]

Charles Davis Page of the 14th Connecticut at Fredericksburg recalled his rolled blanket taking a hit from a shell fragment for him...

Warren Lee Goss of the Army of the Potomac stated that, victory or defeat, the condition of the troops afterward was generally the same, and it was quite frequently the case blankets worn about the men in action were "ventilated..."

Captain Robert B. Smith, commanding the 7th Florida Regiment at the Battle of Bentonville, claimed his rolled blanket worn across his body in action apparently saved his life from a ball...

"As I was advancing upon the last line, leading my reg't. I was struck in the left breast by a minnie ball and at first though I had "gone up" as it had pierced the folds of my blanket & made some nasty looking holes. I turned very pale & felt like falling. Indeed I had all the symptoms of a very seriously wounded man. By the way the holes in my blanket looked I knew it could not have missed my heart scarcely any distance. I was just about to give up, when I thrust my hand into my bosom to feel for the hole & staunch the blood which lo! & behold! there was neither hole nor blood; the ball struck my oil cloth and it being folded several times & quite firm &glossy, the ball glanced off & thus saved my life. As soon as I perceived that I took fresh courage & ran forward until I again got ahead & led on my reg't. Though the balls whistled all around me yet I was spared. Right there I lost half of my reg't. I never saw men fall so fast before. The enemy concentrated their fire upon us & almost annihilated us."

An officer of the 57th Georgia with a blanket roll...

During 1896 some Army officers noted the carriage of the blanket roll in the field was preferred, and that though it was somewhat in the way when the men were lying and firing prone, if thrown off, and the soldier firing over it, it was likely to take a bullet and perhaps deflect or absorb the blow in lieu of it going right into the man's gut (vermiform appendix)...

Generally in the 1898 period and after, however, the Troops would drop their blanket rolls and haversacks upon going into action, and leave them under guard...

 

[RedRover]

Charles Davis Page of the 14th Connecticut at Fredericksburg recalled his rolled blanket taking a hit from a shell fragment for him...


View attachment 526355


Warren Lee Goss of the Army of the Potomac stated that, victory or defeat, the condition of the troops afterward was generally the same, and it was quite frequently the case blankets worn about the men in action were "ventilated..."

View attachment 526356


Captain Robert B. Smith, commanding the 7th Florida Regiment at the Battle of Bentonville, claimed his rolled blanket worn across his body in action apparently saved his life from a ball...

"As I was advancing upon the last line, leading my reg't. I was struck in the left breast by a minnie ball and at first though I had "gone up" as it had pierced the folds of my blanket & made some nasty looking holes. I turned very pale & felt like falling. Indeed I had all the symptoms of a very seriously wounded man. By the way the holes in my blanket looked I knew it could not have missed my heart scarcely any distance. I was just about to give up, when I thrust my hand into my bosom to feel for the hole & staunch the blood which lo! & behold! there was neither hole nor blood; the ball struck my oil cloth and it being folded several times & quite firm &glossy, the ball glanced off & thus saved my life. As soon as I perceived that I took fresh courage & ran forward until I again got ahead & led on my reg't. Though the balls whistled all around me yet I was spared. Right there I lost half of my reg't. I never saw men fall so fast before. The enemy concentrated their fire upon us & almost annihilated us."

An officer of the 57th Georgia with a blanket roll...
View attachment 526354


During 1896 some Army officers noted the carriage of the blanket roll in the field was preferred, and that though it was somewhat in the way when the men were lying and firing prone, if thrown off, and the soldier firing over it, it was likely to take a bullet and perhaps deflect or absorb the blow in lieu of it going right into the man's gut (vermiform appendix)...

View attachment 526350
View attachment 526351View attachment 526352

Generally in the 1898 period and after, however, the Troops would drop their blanket rolls and haversacks upon going into action, and leave them under guard...

 

[Rhea Cole]

Charles Davis Page of the 14th Connecticut at Fredericksburg recalled his rolled blanket taking a hit from a shell fragment for him...


View attachment 526355


Warren Lee Goss of the Army of the Potomac stated that, victory or defeat, the condition of the troops afterward was generally the same, and it was quite frequently the case blankets worn about the men in action were "ventilated..."

View attachment 526356


Captain Robert B. Smith, commanding the 7th Florida Regiment at the Battle of Bentonville, claimed his rolled blanket worn across his body in action apparently saved his life from a ball...

"As I was advancing upon the last line, leading my reg't. I was struck in the left breast by a minnie ball and at first though I had "gone up" as it had pierced the folds of my blanket & made some nasty looking holes. I turned very pale & felt like falling. Indeed I had all the symptoms of a very seriously wounded man. By the way the holes in my blanket looked I knew it could not have missed my heart scarcely any distance. I was just about to give up, when I thrust my hand into my bosom to feel for the hole & staunch the blood which lo! & behold! there was neither hole nor blood; the ball struck my oil cloth and it being folded several times & quite firm &glossy, the ball glanced off & thus saved my life. As soon as I perceived that I took fresh courage & ran forward until I again got ahead & led on my reg't. Though the balls whistled all around me yet I was spared. Right there I lost half of my reg't. I never saw men fall so fast before. The enemy concentrated their fire upon us & almost annihilated us."

An officer of the 57th Georgia with a blanket roll...
View attachment 526354


During 1896 some Army officers noted the carriage of the blanket roll in the field was preferred, and that though it was somewhat in the way when the men were lying and firing prone, if thrown off, and the soldier firing over it, it was likely to take a bullet and perhaps deflect or absorb the blow in lieu of it going right into the man's gut (vermiform appendix)...

View attachment 526350
View attachment 526351View attachment 526352

Generally in the 1898 period and after, however, the Troops would drop their blanket rolls and haversacks upon going into action, and leave them under guard...

Terrific post, RedRover, right on the money. Thanks.

 

[Story]

Very interesting proposition but a folded blanket would be poor defense against most bullets.

What weapon did the Indians use more than firearms?

 

[Rhea Cole]

Very interesting proposition but a folded blanket would be poor defense against most bullets. I use a box stuffed full of folded over worn out jeans about a foot or so thick to stop high powered air gun pellets in my basement. I've even used it capture 9mm Luger and .45 ACP full metal jacket bullets a time or two. A.45 went about 2/3 the way thru with the 9mm stopping around 3/4. Next time I have a chance I will put it to the test with both .36 and .44 Colt revolvers with a good stiff loads for comparison and maybe even a Enfield rifle and report back. How the soft lead lead bullets will react to the denim I'm not sure, they may deform and penetrate less well. I do know my hard cast Whitworth bullets would go thru a foot of denim like butter.

RedRover's post answers the question in the affirmative. It is certainly news to me.

Kinetic Energy = 1/2 Mass X Velocity squared. The low velocity of blackpowder projectiles, no doubt, is a factor in the effectiveness of a folded woolen blanket.

 

[Rhea Cole]

What weapon did the Indians use more than firearms?

View attachment 526359

At Whitestone Hill
Lakota warriors nocked two arrows at a time.

Punitive Expeditions | The U.S.-Dakota War of 1862

"I hope you will not believe all that is said of 'Sully’s Successful Expedition' against the Sioux. I don’t think he ought to brag of it at all, because it was, what no decent man would have done, he pitched into their camp and just slaughtered them, worse a great deal than what the Indians did...

www.usdakotawar.org

 

[Story]

At Whitestone Hill
Lakota warriors nocked two arrows at a time.

Punitive Expeditions | The U.S.-Dakota War of 1862

"I hope you will not believe all that is said of 'Sully’s Successful Expedition' against the Sioux. I don’t think he ought to brag of it at all, because it was, what no decent man would have done, he pitched into their camp and just slaughtered them, worse a great deal than what the Indians did...

www.usdakotawar.org

Indian Double-Barreled Bow.

 

[Story]

Have you read the link to the padded cotton armor that the Spaniards adopted from the Aztecs & Incas? It is a well written essay on the topic.

Link:

Weapons and Armor of the Spanish Conquistadors - How to Peru

The weapons and armor of the Spanish conquistadors gave them a number of distinct advantages in their conquest of the New World, including against the Incas.

howtoperu.com

Better to ask that question of those posting postulations about plate armor, which are those I was responding to with my link.

 

[Joe Whitworth]

This is getting interesting. Hopefully some re-enactor will speak up in the name of science and give the approximate number of layers the issued Yankee wool blanket would make when rolled up for carry? Do you all think a WW1 or WW2 wool US army blanket would be close to a Yankee blanket for ballistics testing purposes?