Yes Virginia There Is A Secession.

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Rebforever

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In my opinion Lincoln the master politician used the events in S.C. to rally his base for war---successfully. It had the same effect that Pearl Harbor had or remember the Maine or 9/11. He suckered the hotheads into firing first when all they had to do was wait the fort out---They would have left anyway. They were close when fired on. It allowed Lincoln to call for 75,000 volunteers for their 90 day war.
And caused the State of Virginia to secede.
 
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Tin cup

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Virginia voters didn't think so when they heard Lincoln was going to run his army through Their state.
So do you think they would have fared BETTER with far less death and destruction in cooperating with the rest of the United States, in allowing forces to cross their border to put down the rebellion?

Kevin Dally
 
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Rebforever

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So do you think they would have fared BETTER with far less death and destruction in cooperating with the rest of the United States, in allowing forces to cross their border to put down the rebellion?

Kevin Dally
I would have if I had been there, supported my state. The Couuntry was bigger then and friends, family and States looked out for each other. Here is what I found. I haven't looked any further so there might be more you would like to read.

Many of the debated arguments were those already outlined in this essay. On March 9, the twenty-first day of the convention, the Committee on Federal Relations submitted a partial report. Throughout that month, the members of the convention focused on presenting resolutions by their constituents either for or against secession. On March 19, the Committee on Federal Relations offered proposed amendments to the Constitution as the culmination of their report to the convention. Next, the members of the convention focused a great deal on amending and adopting the resolutions from the report of the Committee on Federal Relations, until they had all been altered to the majority's satisfaction. On April 13, before the convention could completely finalize this document and submit it to the federal government, the convention learned of the attack on Fort Sumter in South Carolina. The members of the convention saw this as an act of coercion by the North, and this they could not tolerate. Accordingly, on April 16, the convention went into secret session and on the following day passed an ordinance of secession uniting their state's destiny with that of the Southern Confederacy.

http://www.janus.umd.edu/Feb2002/Cote/03.html
 

demiurge

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I would have if I had been there, supported my state. The Couuntry was bigger then and friends, family and States looked out for each other. Here is what I found. I haven't looked any further so there might be more you would like to read.

Many of the debated arguments were those already outlined in this essay. On March 9, the twenty-first day of the convention, the Committee on Federal Relations submitted a partial report. Throughout that month, the members of the convention focused on presenting resolutions by their constituents either for or against secession. On March 19, the Committee on Federal Relations offered proposed amendments to the Constitution as the culmination of their report to the convention. Next, the members of the convention focused a great deal on amending and adopting the resolutions from the report of the Committee on Federal Relations, until they had all been altered to the majority's satisfaction. On April 13, before the convention could completely finalize this document and submit it to the federal government, the convention learned of the attack on Fort Sumter in South Carolina. The members of the convention saw this as an act of coercion by the North, and this they could not tolerate. Accordingly, on April 16, the convention went into secret session and on the following day passed an ordinance of secession uniting their state's destiny with that of the Southern Confederacy.

http://www.janus.umd.edu/Feb2002/Cote/03.html
Yes, we know they seceded, and we know why.

This doesn't answer the question asked to you at all.

To wit:
So do you think they would have fared BETTER with far less death and destruction in cooperating with the rest of the United States, in allowing forces to cross their border to put down the rebellion?
 

Rebforever

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Yes, we know they seceded, and we know why.

This doesn't answer the question asked to you at all.

To wit:
So do you think they would have fared BETTER with far less death and destruction in cooperating with the rest of the United States, in allowing forces to cross their border to put down the rebellion?
It is the only answer I will give.
 
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jgoodguy

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I would have if I had been there, supported my state. The Couuntry was bigger then and friends, family and States looked out for each other. Here is what I found. I haven't looked any further so there might be more you would like to read.

Many of the debated arguments were those already outlined in this essay. On March 9, the twenty-first day of the convention, the Committee on Federal Relations submitted a partial report. Throughout that month, the members of the convention focused on presenting resolutions by their constituents either for or against secession. On March 19, the Committee on Federal Relations offered proposed amendments to the Constitution as the culmination of their report to the convention. Next, the members of the convention focused a great deal on amending and adopting the resolutions from the report of the Committee on Federal Relations, until they had all been altered to the majority's satisfaction. On April 13, before the convention could completely finalize this document and submit it to the federal government, the convention learned of the attack on Fort Sumter in South Carolina. The members of the convention saw this as an act of coercion by the North, and this they could not tolerate. Accordingly, on April 16, the convention went into secret session and on the following day passed an ordinance of secession uniting their state's destiny with that of the Southern Confederacy.

http://www.janus.umd.edu/Feb2002/Cote/03.html
Oddly enough only Slave States felt coerced.
 

ivanj05

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States like Virginia could howl about "coercion" till they were blue in the face, but they could not escape the fact that their people originally consented to a national government with the explicit power to use force to achieve compliance.

Coercion was a red herring, through and through.
 
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unionblue

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I would have if I had been there, supported my state. The Couuntry was bigger then and friends, family and States looked out for each other. Here is what I found. I haven't looked any further so there might be more you would like to read.

Many of the debated arguments were those already outlined in this essay. On March 9, the twenty-first day of the convention, the Committee on Federal Relations submitted a partial report. Throughout that month, the members of the convention focused on presenting resolutions by their constituents either for or against secession. On March 19, the Committee on Federal Relations offered proposed amendments to the Constitution as the culmination of their report to the convention. Next, the members of the convention focused a great deal on amending and adopting the resolutions from the report of the Committee on Federal Relations, until they had all been altered to the majority's satisfaction. On April 13, before the convention could completely finalize this document and submit it to the federal government, the convention learned of the attack on Fort Sumter in South Carolina. The members of the convention saw this as an act of coercion by the North, and this they could not tolerate. Accordingly, on April 16, the convention went into secret session and on the following day passed an ordinance of secession uniting their state's destiny with that of the Southern Confederacy.

http://www.janus.umd.edu/Feb2002/Cote/03.html
The only thing I can gather from this posted reply is "I would rather see tens of thousands of my fellow state citizens die a horrible death, than admit we may have been a tad hasty in deciding that 80 men in a surrounded fort tried to force us into coercion by being shot at by someone else."

(Sigh.)

Unionblue
 

wausaubob

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The trouble with coercion rhetoric is that the Confederate States of America quickly resorted to a coercive draft and a coercive tax in kind. Additionally, there were sections of each secessionist state, other than South Carolina, that knew they had been coerced, continually, by the planter society.
George Orwell put in allegorical terms when he wrote in fiction that the revolutionary pigs soon resemble the farmers and sit down to dine with them as equals.
 
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Rebforever

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States like Virginia could howl about "coercion" till they were blue in the face, but they could not escape the fact that their people originally consented to a national government with the explicit power to use force to achieve compliance.

Coercion was a red herring, through and through.
I disagree. The threat of invasion even before 1861 was made by Lincoln in his campaigns. Solidified by his 1st Inaugural Speech, the South new what was before them. Facts don't cause blue faces. 'Red Herring'? Good old fallback words trying to hide the truth and the facts.
 

jgoodguy

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I disagree. The threat of invasion even before 1861 was made by Lincoln in his campaigns. Solidified by his 1st Inaugural Speech, the South new what was before them. Facts don't cause blue faces. 'Red Herring'? Good old fallback words trying to hide the truth and the facts.
Evidence or just the magic word becauseisayso?
 
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Rebforever

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Do you believe Virginia was not going to secede otherwise? I'm not being smart. Just asking.
I only know what history has explained about Virginia. That would include your statement. There were 2 votes to remain in the Union until the call by Lincoln for 75,000 men to force the South back into the Union. That is all I know and believe.
 
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