Women soldiers not listed in the rolls, arrgh

rosefiend

First Sergeant
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Location
Confusion, Missouri
So: The disguised women soldiers I'm writing about all have male aliases, but so few of these aliases show up on the actual muster rolls.

"Frank Thompson" (aka Sarah Emma Edmonds), who is well-documented, does not show up on the rolls of the 2nd Michigan (it even says so in the regimental history, I believe). "Frank Miller," aka Frances Hook, is not in the rolls of the 90th Illinois, though she is listed as as prisoner of war in the Letter Book of M. H. Wright, col. commanding at Atlanta, Georgia in Feb. 1864 on page 116. Lizzie Compton apparently fought in eight different regiments, but her male alias (Jack Compton) doesn't show up ANYPLACE (not that I know of, anyway). She'd get discovered and mustered out, and then she'd enlist in the next regiment.

And of course there's Frances Clayton (Clanin), who says she enrolled in Missouri regiments that didn't even EXIST (we have all those CW records digitized, yay! http://www.sos.mo.gov/Records/Archives/ArchivesDb/soldiers/) -- there's one actual Clayton (Samuel) and a few other names that are variations of Clayton, but none of these guys match her description. And most of the Missouri regiments did not go to Shiloh or Fort Donelson, as she says she did, but for the most part they stayed here in the state, fighting bushwhackers and guerillas. So I'm not sure what's going on there. Her travels after she was mustered out actually seem to be better documented than her time in the service.

How on earth are these women getting enrolled? Do people just run into these regiments willy-nilly and the commanders say, "Sure, come on!" But then how would they get paid? Are payroll records available?

I will say that a lot of these women seemed to work as orderlies and officers' aides. Many of them were not as brawny as their male counterparts, they were often detailed into lighter duties. So I wonder if maybe some of the officers paid them out of their own pockets for their work. I did find a newspaper account in which a woman was detailed as an officer's aide and was out gathering wood. Emma Edwards delivered mail and was an orderly during battle, and worked as a nurse at Bull Run and at the regimental hospital. So that's a possibility.

I'm thinking that the fellows in charge of mustering people in didn't just fall asleep every time a woman in disguise showed up -- but at the same time I have to wonder.
 
Rosefiend, Jack Davis gave a talk here a couple of years ago about women in the ranks in which he made a very critical point -- very, very few of them were actually enlisted, and as a result few of them show up on muster rolls under their aliases. He estimated that 90-95% of them simply blended in, often with the help of male messmates, using bits of uniforms and equipment they'd picked up various places, and never went through the process (including physical exam) of formally enlisting.
 
Here's one example of how a woman (unsuccessfully) tried to circumvent the normal recruiting process. It sounds like she approached Gist while he was at a fairly temporary headquarters location with his army in the field, rather than approaching a typical recruiting officer.

Oct. 8, 1863 Richmond Dispatch
http://dlxs.richmond.edu/cgi/t/text...=ddr0909.0025.085;node=ddr0909.0025.085:4.2.7
--The Rome (Ga) Courier says that one day last week a pretty little Georgia girl, dressed up in neatly-fitting male habiliments, applied to a Lieutenant of General Gist's command, at Rome, to be enrolled and mustered into the Confederate service. Her request was complied with, and she was about to be sent out to camp, when some one, suspicious of her sex, suggested that little ruffled petticoats and a more feminine occupation than that of the manual of the piece would be more appropriate. She was accordingly sent before Gen. Gist, to whom she confessed her sex, said she was from Gainesville, Ga., and that she had the consent of her parents to disguise herself in male attire and enter the army and revenge the death of her brother, who, poor fellow, was killed in Virginia.--She was sent to Atlanta under escort, but has since made her escape.

I agree with AndyHall, it makes sense that they would try to circumvent the regular recruiting procedure, first because it would probably occur in their hometown where others would know them, and secondly because it could include a medical exam.

But I agree that there's the problem of not receiving pay or rations or clothing and equipment issue, if not listed on the roster. After a while, that could get to be a problem, because one can only scrounge so much. I'm also curious if one could receive issued items and pay without being on the official roster. There's also the possibility, as rosefiend mentioned, that they worked in positions where they had a bit more leeway, as far as getting extra food or earning extra pay.
 
Have not checked the rolls for these gals:
Frances Clalin Clayton a woman who disguised herself as a man named Jack Williams.jpg

A portrait of Frances Clalin Clayton, a woman who disguised herself as a man, "Jack Williams," to fight in the Civil War. She served in the Missouri artillery and cavalry units and is seen here circa 1865.
French Mary Tepe.jpg

"French Mary" Tepe
 
Rosefiend, Jack Davis gave a talk here a couple of years ago about women in the ranks in which he made a very critical point -- very, very few of them were actually enlisted, and as a result few of them show up on muster rolls under their aliases. He estimated that 90-95% of them simply blended in, often with the help of male messmates, using bits of uniforms and equipment they'd picked up various places, and never went through the process (including physical exam) of formally enlisting.

Hey, Jack's from Independence, just down the road. I'll Google him. I have heard of an instance where a man went through the enlisting process and then a woman in disguise took his place in the ranks. Can't remember which story it was -- I have got a lot of them in another file.

There's a lot of talk about women trying to hide their secrets, but I'm starting to think that they often had a little help. When they followed their husbands into the ranks, of course he'd help cover for her. Emma Edwards did confess her secret to a good friend of hers, who was just beside himself afterwards, according to his journal. But I also think that Col. Poe had an idea that she was a woman, or knew outright.

Here's one example of how a woman (unsuccessfully) tried to circumvent the normal recruiting process. It sounds like she approached Gist while he was at a fairly temporary headquarters location with his army in the field, rather than approaching a typical recruiting officer.

Oct. 8, 1863 Richmond Dispatch
http://dlxs.richmond.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ddr;cc=ddr;type=proximity;rgn=div3;q1=female;op2=near;q2=soldier;amt2=120;op3=near;amt3=120;view=text;subview=detail;sort=occur;idno=ddr0909.0025.085;node=ddr0909.0025.085:4.2.7
--The Rome (Ga) Courier says that one day last week a pretty little Georgia girl, dressed up in neatly-fitting male habiliments, applied to a Lieutenant of General Gist's command, at Rome, to be enrolled and mustered into the Confederate service. Her request was complied with, and she was about to be sent out to camp, when some one, suspicious of her sex, suggested that little ruffled petticoats and a more feminine occupation than that of the manual of the piece would be more appropriate. She was accordingly sent before Gen. Gist, to whom she confessed her sex, said she was from Gainesville, Ga., and that she had the consent of her parents to disguise herself in male attire and enter the army and revenge the death of her brother, who, poor fellow, was killed in Virginia.--She was sent to Atlanta under escort, but has since made her escape.

I agree with AndyHall, it makes sense that they would try to circumvent the regular recruiting procedure, first because it would probably occur in their hometown where others would know them, and secondly because it could include a medical exam.

But I agree that there's the problem of not receiving pay or rations or clothing and equipment issue, if not listed on the roster. After a while, that could get to be a problem, because one can only scrounge so much. I'm also curious if one could receive issued items and pay without being on the official roster. There's also the possibility, as rosefiend mentioned, that they worked in positions where they had a bit more leeway, as far as getting extra food or earning extra pay.

Back in the early days of recruiting, it just sounded like all they checked you for was to be sure you had enough teeth to tear a powder packet and enough fingers to pull a trigger. But when the medical requirements grew more stringent, they would jump from field HQ to field HQ to enlist. This is where I start wondering what enlisting in the field entails. I have one woman who got into the 8th NY Cavalry and eventually fought in the front ranks -- apparently she stayed with the officers mostly, but they didn't know she was a woman. Though this was a New York regiment, it sounds like she joined them while they were near the Shenandoah Valley. But her male alias is not on their roster, either. Also, all the men on the official roster had enlisted in Rochester and around NY state. And yet we're picking up people out in the field somehow.

It doesn't seem like the women were scrounging, either, even though they weren't on the official list. Emma seems to have received regular pay. One woman who was found out and sent to Barracks No. 1 in Louisville was waiting to be given her five months' pay. (They didn't give her name, unfortunately.) Lizzie Compton, who I mentioned earlier, said she kept rejoining the army because she needed the money -- and also she hated women seceshes with the heat of five million suns (not her words, but she made it pretty clear!).

So these soldiers were getting paid for something. This makes me wonder how many other people were in the army who did not show up on the official muster.

Is there someone out here that specializes in Civil War administration matters? Because these details are pretty huge, especially if we have folks falling through the gaps like this.
 
Have not checked the rolls for these gals:
View attachment 54090
A portrait of Frances Clalin Clayton, a woman who disguised herself as a man, "Jack Williams," to fight in the Civil War. She served in the Missouri artillery and cavalry units and is seen here circa 1865.
View attachment 54091
"French Mary" Tepe

Thanks. Frances is the gal I was talking about earlier who says she was in a couple of Missouri cavalry regiments that didn't exist (nor would they have gone to Shiloh -- they were primarily after bushwhackers) and I don't even know that Missouri had an artillery regiment. It's mostly State Militia up here.

Your second pic, unfortunately, is not of Marie Tepe. I haven't seen a name given for the lady in your pic. Here's Marie. Boy, if I spoke French, I'd talk to her in a heartbeat. She's amazing. This was taken right after Gettysburg, and she's wearing the Kearney Medal she earned at Chancellorsville:

ccnews111_02_big.jpg


As was this one, taken on Cemetery Hill (detail from a larger pic):

Expired Image Removed
 
Is there someone out here that specializes in Civil War administration matters? Because these details are pretty huge, especially if we have folks falling through the gaps like this.

Ask M E Wolf about joining the Scrivener's List. It's an email list dedicated to military paperwork during the Civil War and related topics, and someone on there might be able to help.
 
Martha Lindley fought next to her husband in the 6th US Cavalry ( regulars ), enlistment featured any number of pitfalls which should have uncovered her secret. Never did. Have to go look up the name she fought under, pretty well known. Have to imagine payment was issued to whomever she became- can't imagine it would have been tough to go bank that as her male, trooper self, then turn it into cash.
 
I think Marie ended up dying destitute? Must mean she never became recognized as a petitioner- all that honorable service, the medals, I think she was badly taken advantage of, drank paint or something to commit suicide in the end. Sad, sad story. Such a fuss made of her, all our veterans in homes, taken care of. After all her front line service she was left literally out in to cold, died alone and forgotten because women were disallowed pensions for this kind of service. Heck, we're still celebrating Marie Tepe without mentioning her awful second half of her life and lonely, friendless death. She was our front-page hero until she needed help herself.

Nurses had a terrible, terrible time too. Most gave up- just stopped trying to get pensions even though the war broke the health of many. The paper work required simply did not exist- what was required otherwise by way of letters from doctors and witnesses, etc. also frequently did not exist. Men would have died or moved so far away hey could not be found. I know you did not request information on nurses, but the entire subject of ' what happened' post war to women in any kind of service drives me a little crazy.
 
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ps Don't give up on legitimate female soldiers, Rosefiend! I've always wished to have the resources to track the several female Confederates at Gettysburg. One found as a casualty of Pickett's Charge, they think from where her body was, she was in a Virginia regiment and another was mentioned in a letter home, written by a Union soldier. He wrote home saying there was a pretty little sesesh in the same hospital as him, how amazing it was and how she should have stayed at home.

Can't remember where, a number of years ago one of those mass graves was discovered, from one of the Civil War battles. You know how they had to sometimes do that, bury the poor men in a huge hurry due to deteriorating conditions of bodies? Among those bodies was the skeleton of a female, no reason to believe she'd been anything other than someone who fell in combat.
 
Thanks. Frances is the gal I was talking about earlier who says she was in a couple of Missouri cavalry regiments that didn't exist (nor would they have gone to Shiloh -- they were primarily after bushwhackers) and I don't even know that Missouri had an artillery regiment. It's mostly State Militia up here.

Your second pic, unfortunately, is not of Marie Tepe. I haven't seen a name given for the lady in your pic. Here's Marie. Boy, if I spoke French, I'd talk to her in a heartbeat. She's amazing. This was taken right after Gettysburg, and she's wearing the Kearney Medal she earned at Chancellorsville:

ccnews111_02_big.jpg


As was this one, taken on Cemetery Hill (detail from a larger pic):

Expired Image Removed
Good Catch! Thanks rose I had transposed captions in my file. Glad you helped correct them!
 
Ask M E Wolf about joining the Scrivener's List. It's an email list dedicated to military paperwork during the Civil War and related topics, and someone on there might be able to help.

Great! I will do that next.

I think Marie ended up dying destitute? Must mean she never became recognized as a petitioner- all that honorable service, the medals, I think she was badly taken advantage of, drank paint or something to commit suicide in the end. Sad, sad story. Such a fuss made of her, all our veterans in homes, taken care of. After all her front line service she was left literally out in to cold, died alone and forgotten because women were disallowed pensions for this kind of service. Heck, we're still celebrating Marie Tepe without mentioning her awful second half of her life and lonely, friendless death. She was our front-page hero until she needed help herself.

Nurses had a terrible, terrible time too. Most gave up- just stopped trying to get pensions even though the war broke the health of many. The paper work required simply did not exist- what was required otherwise by way of letters from doctors and witnesses, etc. also frequently did not exist. Men would have died or moved so far away hey could not be found. I know you did not request information on nurses, but the entire subject of ' what happened' post war to women in any kind of service drives me a little crazy.

You're right, Marie Tepe really had an awful time toward the end. She still had that bullet in her ankle from Fredericksburg, so she was hobbling around with a cane and it caused her great pain. She couldn't read or write, and she still spoke broken French, so she wasn't able to get the paperwork together for a pension (which would have required a special act of Congress, because she was not enlisted as a nurse). A reporter quoted her as saying, "Sometimes I don't know where to get a bit of bread. I wouldn't want a pension if I was not so poor." She killed herself in 1901 by drinking Paris green, which was a paint pigment also used as a rat poison in Paris. A sad end to an amazing career.

Good Catch! Thanks rose I had transposed captions in my file. Glad you helped correct them!

No problem, I am here to serve.
 
Great! I will do that next.



You're right, Marie Tepe really had an awful time toward the end. She still had that bullet in her ankle from Fredericksburg, so she was hobbling around with a cane and it caused her great pain. She couldn't read or write, and she still spoke broken French, so she wasn't able to get the paperwork together for a pension (which would have required a special act of Congress, because she was not enlisted as a nurse). A reporter quoted her as saying, "Sometimes I don't know where to get a bit of bread. I wouldn't want a pension if I was not so poor." She killed herself in 1901 by drinking Paris green, which was a paint pigment also used as a rat poison in Paris. A sad end to an amazing career.



No problem, I am here to serve.


It's one of the more shameful episodes in our History- our Marie, reduced to abject poverty. So it was a paint pigment> Whoa. Poor dear little thing- makes one determined to find a way to keep honoring her, you know? Such a sterling character, too- you never hear ' The other side of Marie Tepe '. She literally lived those years to help soldiers who badly, badly needed what she offered. Can't imagine why she wasn't killed and having lived through it, SO awful to have been left to drift like that.

The pension paperwork WAS insane- just crazy and the number of witness, same. I finally sent for one of my grgrgrandgather's entire pension papers and it's insane. GSW left arm ( he was left handed like all of us, kind of cool to see )- you can see where he had his arm up, holding his musket- ball entered forearm, went straight UP through, came out shoulder. Awful but they did not amputate!! No idea why- but his fingers curled inwards increasingly, he had horrendous nerve pain, guess it just tore the bejammers out of nerves in the shoulder and neck. Anyway- he says he'll work, just needs some helo- and as he got older needed more- the wound kept bringing out more ' stuff'. Anyway- it was ' refuse refuse refuse, thay said he could use his other arm! SO maddening to read all these pages. Finally, 20 years post war a doc in DC read about him, became enraged ( it's all in the papers ) and issued a flat order for the local docs to stop being stupid- the man was literally dying of the wound- give him the pension. Crazy. He'd gotten an infection meanwhile, made him blind. AND he had help, the local GAR, Marie had no one and I'm guessing not a lawyer. Insane- how our vets required a lawyer just to go prove to your own government, the one you stoop UP for, risked your life for, that you got shot for it, too.
 
Have not checked the rolls for these gals:
View attachment 54090
A portrait of Frances Clalin Clayton, a woman who disguised herself as a man, "Jack Williams," to fight in the Civil War. She served in the Missouri artillery and cavalry units and is seen here circa 1865.
View attachment 54091
"French Mary" Tepe



Oh, almost forgot- I'd read where she is so far unidentified? Bet a determined researcher could find her- not sure how. Maybe an expert in uniforms and rifles could pick out details, help match what she looks like and is wearing and carrying to a state, then possibly a regiment.
 
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