Why No 15th Alabama Monument at Gettysburg?


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Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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I guess the question is do you think this rock is the rock on Oates's map and on the GNMP blueprint? Or just one not the other?
I think that rock is the one annotated on Oates' map. As to whether or not Oates is right, I don't have an opinion right now. Oates believed it, but then again, he was under great stress at the time and this was many years after the fact.
 

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I think that rock is the one annotated on Oates' map. As to whether or not Oates is right, I don't have an opinion right now. Oates believed it, but then again, he was under great stress at the time and this was many years after the fact.
Well he certainly was mixed up about left and right, and I also wonder if he went that far North. That rock seems very far north to be his middle.
Chamberlain gets a lot of blame for disagreeing with Oates, but frankly I find his statements confusing and very easy to disagree with. I notice a lot of historians just taking these "drove back Chamberlain's right" statements as facts, but then you look at maps made by historians and none seem to show that they believe that. Not even Oates map would agree.
But even if Oates' map is right, I still don't see proof that that was the rock his brother was carried behind.
So I guess its free and clear for the Chamberlain monument then. :happy:
 

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Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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Well he certainly was mixed up about left and right, and I also wonder if he went that far North. That rock seems very far north to be his middle.
Chamberlain gets a lot of blame for disagreeing with Oates, but frankly I find his statements confusing and very easy to disagree with. I notice a lot of historians just taking these "drove back Chamberlain's right" statements as facts, but then you look at maps made by historians and none seem to show that they believe that. Not even Oates map would agree.
But even if Oates' map is right, I still don't see proof that that was the rock his brother was carried behind.
So I guess its free and clear for the Chamberlain monument then. :happy:
I can see them reaching the rock because in their flanking movements they wrapped around the hill partially, and Chamberlain had to bend his line back in a sort of "V" shape. The boulder is just inside the 20th Maine's left flank line. It's not outside the realm of possibility that in a momentary advance just past the line, the confederates were able to get there.
 

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I can see them reaching the rock because in their flanking movements they wrapped around the hill partially, and Chamberlain had to bend his line back in a sort of "V" shape. The boulder is just inside the 20th Maine's left flank line. It's not outside the realm of possibility that in a momentary advance just past the line, the confederates were able to get there.
I'd buy that, but for that spot to be where Oates colors were was the part that I wondered at.
 

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I'll be visiting Gettysburg for the first time next month and was eagerly hoping to visit a monument dedicated to Oates and his troops. I'm surprised to find that there is no monument to those brave Alabamians. After looking in my copy of "Gettysburg Requiem," a biography of Oates penned in 2006 by Glenn LaFantasie, I was even more surprised to find that Chamberlin used backchannels to object to a monument being placed while, at the same time, duplicitly corresponding with Oates that he welcomed a statue being erected.
The OP is probably long gone, but I just wanted to point out that LaFantasie says it was the commissioners not Chamberlain who went behind Oates back.

"Eventually, however, Oates realized that the commissioners kept encouraging him in person while they also worked to undermine his efforts"

And one of the commissioners was a former Confederate.
 

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I can see them reaching the rock because in their flanking movements they wrapped around the hill partially, and Chamberlain had to bend his line back in a sort of "V" shape. The boulder is just inside the 20th Maine's left flank line. It's not outside the realm of possibility that in a momentary advance just past the line, the confederates were able to get there.
But let me just say again, if Oates had started off with this map Chamberlain would have very likely had very little to disagree with, but instead of this map Chamberlain first sees Oates saying he drove Chamberlain's Right back, and in his book Oates describes driving Chamberlain's Right back to that boulder. So that is why Chamberlain protested. It wasnt that he was too vain to admit to being driven back, it was that it was his left that was driven not his right.
 

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Oooh I just had a great idea! So Oates' monument is not allowed by the rules... and Chamberlain's has apparently been approved... so on a Chamberlain statue have depicted at the base a Maine soldier grasping Oates' flag and getting stabbed in the face, or some such scene, maybe throw Oates brother in there, and on the side facing Oates' line inscribe that side with what Oates wanted...

To the Memory of Lt. John A. Oates
and his gallant Comrades
who fell here July 2nd, 1863.
The 15th Ala. Regt., over 400 strong,
reached this spot, but for
lack of support had to retire.
Lt. Col. Feagin lost a leg
Capts. Brainard and Ellison
Lts. Oates and Copy and
33 men were killed, 76 wounded
and 84 captured.

And on the other say some such similar thing to the Maine boys.
 

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Oooh I just had a great idea! So Oates' monument is not allowed by the rules... and Chamberlain's has apparently been approved... so on a Chamberlain statue have depicted at the base a Maine soldier grasping Oates' flag and getting stabbed in the face, or some such scene, maybe throw Oates brother in there, and on the side facing Oates' line inscribe that side with what Oates wanted...

To the Memory of Lt. John A. Oates
and his gallant Comrades
who fell here July 2nd, 1863.
The 15th Ala. Regt., over 400 strong,
reached this spot, but for
lack of support had to retire.
Lt. Col. Feagin lost a leg
Capts. Brainard and Ellison
Lts. Oates and Copy and
33 men were killed, 76 wounded
and 84 captured.

And on the other say some such similar thing to the Maine boys.
Tom Desjardin says no, can't even be remotely Confederate inside union lines.
Ah well, thought I might have found a loophole for you guys.
 

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Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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Tom Desjardin says no, can't even be remotely Confederate inside union lines.
Ah well, thought I might have found a loophole for you guys.
Some current views of Oates Rock. You can see the 20th Maine Left Flank Marker in the background.

100_8958.jpg
100_8959.jpg
100_8960.jpg


This one is taken from just behind the rock looking at the Left Flank Marker:
100_8961.jpg
 

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Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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This one is from the Oates Rock looking southward. You can see the 20th Maine Monument to the left of the group of people:

100_8962.jpg


This is looking back toward Oates Rock from the 20th Maine Monument
100_8963.jpg


This is taken from Chamberlain Avenue, looking up toward the 20th Maine's Left Flank Marker:
100_8964.jpg

This is looking up from Chamberlain Ave. to where Oates Rock is.
100_8965.jpg
 

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Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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Another view from Chamberlain Avenue looking up at the Left Flank Marker:
100_8966.jpg


Another view from the 20th Maine Monument looking northward toward Oates Rock:
100_8971.jpg


20th Maine Left Flank Marker on the right, Oates Rock on the left, just to the right of the larger trees on the left side of the photo.
100_8972.jpg
 

suzenatale

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Another view from Chamberlain Avenue looking up at the Left Flank Marker:
View attachment 136493

Another view from the 20th Maine Monument looking northward toward Oates Rock:
View attachment 136494

20th Maine Left Flank Marker on the right, Oates Rock on the left, just to the right of the larger trees on the left side of the photo.
View attachment 136495
Oh cool thanks! I'm so easily distracted that I got pulled from this research quest into a discussion on the Compromise of 1877. But this is really great!
 

suzenatale

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Another view from Chamberlain Avenue looking up at the Left Flank Marker:
View attachment 136493

Another view from the 20th Maine Monument looking northward toward Oates Rock:
View attachment 136494

20th Maine Left Flank Marker on the right, Oates Rock on the left, just to the right of the larger trees on the left side of the photo.
View attachment 136495
I will say though, looking at your pictures, any of these rocks could be the rock his brother was carried behind. Especially the ones as you look up from Chamberlain Ave. I seriously doubt it was the one named Oates rock. That would be right on the front lines and not offer any protection to someone who was wounded.
 

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Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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I will say though, looking at your pictures, any of these rocks could be the rock his brother was carried behind. Especially the ones as you look up from Chamberlain Ave. I seriously doubt it was the one named Oates rock. That would be right on the front lines and not offer any protection to someone who was wounded.
I was struck by that as well. The one identified as Oates Rock does correspond to Oates' map.
 

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