Why do present-day Southerners have such passion for the 'Lost Cause?'

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19thGeorgia

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Thanks for reminding us that racism was once common in the United States, something virtually everyone here agrees on. Are you suggesting that that shared racism is part of the Lost Cause? That it somehow justifies the antebellum practice of chattel slavery?
The line of discussion was about the territories and the motives of Northerners. How you got 'part of the Lost Cause' and 'justifies chattel slavery' out of that is beyond me. Edited.
 

WJC

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The line of discussion was about the territories and the motives of Northerners. How you got 'part of the Lost Cause' and 'justifies chattel slavery' out of that is beyond me. Edited.
Thanks for your response.
The topic is "Why do present-day Southerners have such passion for the 'Lost Cause?'" It is not about "the territories and the motives of Northerners" unless one can show a tie in with the topic. I am seeking that tie in, what it is that makes your post about Oregon's Constitution relevant to the thread.
 
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John S. Carter

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This is a new one for me as I have been pretty content to sit back and wait for Oldreb to put forth his ideas on secession, etc. and then try to slap them down.

I know it has entertained and amused most of you and may have caused some distress with a few of you on this board.

But now I put a serious question to all who find sympathy with the cause of the South during the War of the Rebellion. Why?

Why such passion and such a fervent belief in that the cause of the South was somehow right? Why do you think secession was proper and just? Especially when it was so long ago and is so remote from your present day life. And why do you have such deep passions about the subject?

Unionblue
It is heritage.not the slave heritage which my fellow Yanks what to point and remind the South of their true heritage of that system.,which they continue since the final days the war as the victor they want the defeated South to always remember that they were in the RIGHT and we were in the WRONG.GIT OVER THAT .No the heritage that I refer to is the heritage of men who were willing to sacrifice for what they believed in,the same issues which their fore bearers did .Now I know that some will again bring out the "bloody shirt" and say that no matter on any other issues it is and always will be for them that one word "SLAVERY",so this is the last time I shall try to explain to my Yankee friend,it is a honor to have gray blood in my veins.
 

unionblue

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It is heritage.

What heritage is that?

Not the slave heritage which my fellow Yanks what to point and remind the South of their true heritage of that system, which they continue since the final days the war as the victor they want the defeated South to always remember that they were in the RIGHT and we were in the WRONG.

"We?" Are you old enough to have served in the Civil War with the rest of the "we" who are long gone and shuffled off the mortal coil?

GIT OVER THAT.

Hard to do, with so much historical evidence laying around.

No the heritage that I refer to is the heritage of men who were willing to sacrifice for what they believed in, the same issues which their fore bearers did.

A belief in chattel slavery vs. freedom from an Empire that prevented representation. Not the same really.

Now I know that some will again bring out the "bloody shirt" and say that no matter on any other issues it is and always will be for them that one word "SLAVERY," so this is the last time I shall try to explain to my Yankee friend,

It's hard not to bring up slavery since it was THE issue that brought on the war, not because a "Yankee" says so, but because so many Confederates did so.

It is a honor to have gray blood in my veins.
Your call, but my Great-great-grandfather had "gray blood" in his veins, was a slaveowner, and STILL wrong in fighting to preserve such. I have no doubt of his personal courage, as he was captured during Picket's Charge at the Angle at Gettysburg. Bur he was still wrong and I feel absolutely no loyalty for his service of such a lost cause.

Unionblue
 

19thGeorgia

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Your call, but my Great-great-grandfather had "gray blood" in his veins, was a slaveowner, and STILL wrong in fighting to preserve such. I have no doubt of his personal courage, as he was captured during Picket's Charge at the Angle at Gettysburg. Bur he was still wrong and I feel absolutely no loyalty for his service of such a lost cause.

Unionblue
He was right to defend the South against the Slavery Shouters.

Northern Vandals tread our soil, Forth they come for blood and spoil,
To the homes we've gained with toil; Shouting, "Slavery."
 
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cash

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He was right to defend the South against the Slavery Shouters.

Northern Vandals tread our soil, Forth they come for blood and spoil,
To the homes we've gained with toil; Shouting, "Slavery."

"Now, any man who pretends to believe that this is not a war for the emancipation of the blacks, and that the whole course of the Yankee Government has not only been directed to the abolition of slavery, but even to a stirring up of servile insurrections, is either a fool or a liar.“ [ The Vidette, the camp newspaper of Morgan's Cavalry, 2 Nov 1862]
 

Henry Brown

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No the heritage that I refer to is the heritage of men who were willing to sacrifice for what they believed in
i get that. it is a noble trait. the problem for me is, and let's take slavery out of the equation, that my heritage is that of the USA, and i am a southerner.
when i was a kid we would spend half the night decorating our bikes for the 4th of july parade . i grew up singing "home on the range" and " this land is your land ". i believed in the "land of the free" and "the home of the brave" where "all men are created equal ". even in my ignorance of jim crow or racism. my hero's were almost all WW2 figures.
the confederacy would have ruined what my heritage is, where i live, in my country. they tried to split my country , took up arms against it, and called it their enemy. a man or woman who would do that , regardless of any other noble qualities they might have, is not deserving of my honor except as an adversary. the heritage or qualities that you speak of is not just southern but american and has been demonstrated many times before and since the ACW.
ok now throw slavery in the mix and you have a heritage i cannot tolerate much less honor.
 

Henry Brown

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for those who like to [ use the lost cause ] claim the fight was because "we were invaded" , i would like to point out that the invasion had nothing to do with slavery except that it was connected to secession. this also had nothing to do with invasion except that it caused south carolina to fire on the star of the west and fort sumter. this had everything to do with invasion while slavery had to do with secession. even with all the other factors involved , invasion was only initiated by armed insurrection .
 
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unionblue

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He was right to defend the South against the Slavery Shouters.

Northern Vandals tread our soil, Forth they come for blood and spoil,
To the homes we've gained with toil; Shouting, "Slavery."
19thGeorgia,

He was not right, not then, not now, not at any time in the future.

He fought for the wrong cause, at the wrong time, and wasted all of his courage and bravery in defense of an institution that was wrong for all time.

No chorus of a long dead song can justify just how wrong he was. And like the man said, "It is all our soil." And the only people shouting "Slavery" were the one's trying to protect it.

And rooting for a 157 year mistake is just as wrong.

Unionblue
 

byron ed

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and, once again to remind, there's an awful lot of reputation being invested in a mere four years of heritage, and a Edited four years at that. The greatness of the South is so much more than the four Edited years that resulted in ruin for most Southerners.

Southern Heritage mongers, from the hindsight and comfort of modern US citizenship, have sold out an admirable and long-standing heritage of a couple hundred years of Southern endurance and achievement before and after the Confederacy for a few scant years of the Confederacy -- and that mostly just to pose as some sort of "butternut cowboy," waving a rag that never was the national flag of that nation to begin with.

That'd even be understandable, as so many of us here have played with six-shooters and worn boots with spurs and screached hooligan, but there's real damage in connecting that play-acting to a denial that the war was about slavery. A major lesson of history has been trivialized and obfuscated. With slavery still an issue today, the "lost cause" has provided precedent and permission on how to deny unpleasant realities and still sleep well at night.

We say honor the South for its bravery and endurance in spite of the Confederacy. Make Robert E. Lee human again. It's what he would have wanted. And pitch the rag, also something he was in favor of.
 

1NCCAV

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Honor the South for its bravery and endurance in spite of the short years of the Confederacy.
In my experience, about the only people I've seen do this is Texans. Texans seem to live and celebrate the totality of everything that is Texas, which admittedly includes the Confederacy, but also extends before and after the Confederacy. I saw the battle flag on occasion when I lived in Texas but the Lone Star was everywhere and seen every day.

Most non-Texan Southerners have Southern and Confederate as synonyms in their minds in a way that Texans don't seem to. At least that was my experience growing up in North Carolina and having a brief (three year) experience living in West Texas.
 
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unionblue

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In my experience, about the only people I've seen do this is Texans. Texans seem to live and celebrate the totality of everything that is Texas, which admittedly includes the Confederacy, but also extends before and after the Confederacy. I saw the battle flag on occasion when I lived in Texas but the Lone Star was everywhere and seen every day.

Most non-Texan Southerners have Southern and Confederate as synonyms in their minds in a way that Texans don't seem to. At least that was my experience growing up in North Carolina and having a brief (three year) experience living in West Texas.
I was stationed in San Antonio and El Paso for a time and remember it exactly as you refer to in your post above. Like they used to say, "Texas is a whole other country," proud of all it's history and the title 'Texan' was a proud one to claim.

Why, I still have a Lone Star flag in my den, near my Confederate Battle Flag. Great people, friendly to a fault, always willing to help anyone in need.

Lot of fond memories of Texas.
 
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Henry Brown

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in my research on the "lost cause" i found some interesting information about R E Lee. far from being the "greatest" general ever he seldom appears in the top ten in most lists. most have him in the high teens and twenties. the interesting thing is that Jackson is often rated higher than lee . i read somewhere that lee never lost a battle in which he had jackson and never won one without him . this does not appear to be true but demonstrates that jackson was the key to lee's successes in spite of lee's tactical gambles or mistakes .
 
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byron ed

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It takes two to tango. Northern white supremacy and the exclusion of blacks from the territories (slave and free) was as much a cause as the other.
Not quite. Northern whites were not for slavery. Good attempt to distract from the blame of one by pointing out the blame of another. Very typical attempt of Confederate apologists each time the subject of slavery is brought up, as if the "equally guilty" logic will sneak by. It won't.

The goal of pointing out Northern culpability is, of course, is to suggest that Southern maintenance and expansion of slavery is no worse than Northern rejection of blacks in the free states. But it is worse. People were actually damaged by slavery, many physically. When such damage occurred in the Northern states it was caused by Southern slave catchers, so same thing.

Let's not give Northern white attitudes towards blacks a pass, or the fact that many Northern states had allowed slavery for decades. But for truths sake let's keep in perspective how much worse Southern slavery was by comparison.
 
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Thread closed. This thread was bumped on September 9th after no activity for almost 8 years. Since the bump,it has been the subject of 76 moderator actions.
 
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