Why didn't the South Wait?

unionblue

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You leave out a number of facts here, one of them being that neither Clay nor Calhoun could stand Jackson, leading them to ally in working on a compromise bill that would reduce the tariff over time. You also leave out the fact that Jackson only got his Force Bill, which had stalled due to wariness over the idea of authorizing the President to use force against a State (not even getting out of committee in the House and stalled in the Senate partially through Calhoun's efforts in opposing it), because Clay convinced enough in Congress to drop opposition, thus securing Jackson's support for the compromise. Clay noted that a compromise was necessary to "prevent civil war and save us from the danger of entrusting to Andrew Jackson large armies.”

And honestly, anyone who characterizes Calhoun as "desperate" to reverse nullification does not understand the man at all. He was as resolute as Jackson.

I leave out nothing in the source I gave you in my previous post# 139.

Jackson applied the right amount of threat and force to bring such a "compromise" to a conclusion that Calhoun had to swallow a bitter pill and he did not get what he was initially seeking, to keep the federal government out of ruling on slavery.
 

Andersonh1

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I leave out nothing in the source I gave you in my previous post# 139.

Jackson applied the right amount of threat and force to bring such a "compromise" to a conclusion that Calhoun had to swallow a bitter pill and he did not get what he was initially seeking, to keep the federal government out of ruling on slavery.

Again, you give Jackson way too much credit, and not enough to all the others involved in this difficult situation. The picture of the mighty and resolute Andrew Jackson cowing all into submission is not the historical reality, however much some might like to believe that it is. Yes, Jackson was determined, but so was Calhoun and so was South Carolina, and our system worked as it was designed to promote compromise and solve problems.

Does Freehling mention that Jackson lost support among some Southern politicians by asking Congress for authorization to use force to collect the tariff? Does he mention that the Force Bill stalled in Congress before the compromise bill was worked out, meaning Jackson had no legal authority to use force? Does he mention the political alliance of Clay and Calhoun? Did he mention that Jackson supported a reduction of the tariff via a bill by Gulian C. Verplanck in order to try and win back some lost Southern support? All of these were factors that played into the search for a way out of the impasse. It was not simply that Jackson talked tough and scared everyone into backing down. That's absurd.
 

trice

Colonel
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May 2, 2006
The "compromise" was not as easy as you might have thought for Calhoun. He was forced to backtrack on many of his demands and objectives and Henry Clay played a huge part in making him swallow much of what he formally did not want.

The compromise was helped along by Jackson sending Winfield Scott (the Black Hawk War having been decided) to South Carolina with reinforcements (5 companies of artillery and 2 of infantry). In combination with the Navy, Scott was to act as Jackson's emissary while making sure the tariff was collected. After that, South Carolina decided to suspend the Nullification Act, and then the Tariff of 1833 was passed.
 

CowCavalry

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Aug 17, 2017
My answer? See the avatar? I'm spitting on Louis T. Wigfall's grave. If you don't know about him, let's start with this--the guy rowed out to Fort Sumter with his own letter demanding surrender--at night. He climbed up the ramparts and stuck his head through a gun port, where Abner Doubleday discovered him. Oh yeah, he was wearing his own Confederate uniform. Seriously. He's one of the jerks most responsible for Sam Houston being driven out as Governor of Texas. His incendiary letters back to Texas during the pre-secession period (he was a US senator from Texas--but he came from South Carolina) did a lot of stir up people. He was the first commander (organizer) of Hood's Texas Brigade--but after the first boring winter camp, he bailed on them and...Yep...became a member of the Confederate Government, where he continued in meddling until he escaped to England sans family. Oh, and it was the duel between him and Preston Brooks that indirectly led to the caning of Sumner--he wounded Brooks, who then needed a cane to walk. He did everything in his power to make sure the peace talks before the war failed. He's the poster boy for dysfunction and chaos--and he did as much or more than any other fire eater to make sure there was a war. Civilwartalk won't let me accurately describe him--profanity can't be used on this site. However, just imagine....

View attachment 318553
Arguably, he had the best name ever for a firebrand.....you couldn't make this up, sounds like a caricature for a populist politician lol.
 

CSA Today

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Arguably, he had the best name ever for a firebrand.....you couldn't make this up, sounds like a caricature for a populist politician lol.
His gg- granddaughter lives in North Carolina, she has his letters and many of his wartime possessions. She has given two programs at our SCV camp, I can't explain the thrill we got from meeting a direct descendant of this great Confederate patriot and actually touching some of his artifacts.
 

Nathanb1

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Smack dab in the heart of Texas
Arguably, he had the best name ever for a firebrand.....you couldn't make this up, sounds like a caricature for a populist politician lol.
He was. Spending the winter at the head of the newly formed Texas Brigade, drinking and holed up in Virginia...then when the fighting starts he tears off to go play politics. I have little use for people like that.
 

John S. Carter

Sergeant Major
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Some historians suggest that the Civil War really started in "Bleeding Kansas." Both sides had already spilled the blood of their opponents and the nation was headed toward war. Jefferson Davis held off attacking, recognizing the advantage of being attacked versus attacking first. He could not restrain everyone in the Confederacy who were eager to start what they saw as a short, easy-to-win, military conflict.

Also, Lincoln was largely unknown. He was a figure onto which people projected their fears and hatred. Being obscure, encouraged irrational thoughts about him. The long-term forecast favored the North, but my opinion is that the decision was more emotional than reasoned.
May I suggest that more reading be done as to those who lead the South into secession, I am reading reading the bio. on William Lowndes Yancey, coming of the Civil WAR, author H, Walther. Yancey was from Alabama but as you know there were other in other Southern states . This is the political history of the man who began as a strong nationalist but with events than threatened the Southern life style of slavery his politics turned radical along with his meeting the John C, Calhoun and Robert Rhett. The movement towards succession began with a massive convincing of the people of the nomination of the North. The radicals had to form their own pollical party because neither Democratic. or Whig represented Southern interest. This took time and propaganda to convince the common people .The 1840s was a period of movement toward succession. These secessionist where great speakers and very skilled at knowing what it needed to persuade the people to their view. The press and pamphlets were the tool they used to remind the people of what the North political agenda was toward their particular life style. I do suggest that you may be interested in the, Southern Rights Association .John C. did not go away after NULLIFCATION. All revolutions or rebellions require time and dedication along with skilled leadership who can suede events towards their benefit, The founders did this ,the fire eaters did ,and political leaders do this.
 
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