Why didnt Jeff Davis send more man power to Vicksburg and other areas in dire need?

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Oct 16, 2005
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Bellville Tx
After being constantly told that they needed more man power at Vicksburg at the surrounding areas. And having said that they needed to protect Vicksburg at "all costs". Why didnt he do just that!!

They knew that eventually that the federals would attack Vicksburg sooner or later.

What do yall think???
 
tex cav (dismount)

Compliments ,Sir,
Long and short of it Bragg was a jerk. He had no chance of getting a relief colum in there after the battle around black river. The real bite was Pemberton(Gen.) had to pay attention to what Bragg said "Fight Your Way Out"- and what Jeff davis said _ "Hold At All Costs(vicksburg)". On top of that he (pemberton) was a born Yankee (Penn) I think. Who is gonna trust him????
Point being No one came to his rescue when southern Armies could of. They were late. This was not an unusal situation.

Gauss
 
Don't think you can blame poor Pemberton as being a 'Yank', he demontrated his alliegence to the Confederacy long before.

I think there was much confusion about what to do about the 'suddden' crisis at Vickburg. The place was highly defended and it was not generally anticipated that it was vulnerable.

So whatever, it was too little to late.

Also there were few resources available to send there.

It was just one great example of how Mr. Davis Western command was in complete disarray.
 
My $0.02:

I'm not so sure that Davis was 'constantly told' that they needed more manpower in Vicksburg. My own sense of it (at least so far anyway) was that Grant's successive failures to get into the city served to create a false sense of security. I think Pemberton really believed that Grant wouldn't get into the city and Davis believed what Pemberton told him (there would be no real reason for him not to). Little did they know of Grant's unprecedented tenacity and determination to get into Vicksburg. Consider that most generals would have quit after the third attempt to get into the city; Grant didn't.

A guy by the name of Reagan (Postmaster General) was the only guy in Davis's cabinet that correctly discerned the threat from Grant and went so far as to visit Davis in the middle of the night to tell him so when all signs pointed to a favorable approval of Lee's venture into Pennsylvania. Reagan's warnings fell on deaf ears and Lee was given the go-ahead for a northern invasion.

As an aside, I don't believe Bragg was the problem (i.e., 'fight your way out') - that was Johnston. The weird triangulation between Davis, Johnston and Pemberton was unfortunate for the Confederate side and further muddled an already disjointed approach.
 
Concur with above. While the chain of command was confusing, Johnston was overall commander and should have mustered up more forces at the expense of leaving others defenseless. As a soldier, Johnston must have known the maxim of Frederick the Great: He who defends everything defends nothing. Ed Bearss discusses this fully in his three volume set on the Siege of Vicksburg. It's available from Morningside Press (and I got mine autographed when I met Bearss).
 
I agree with FS & Gary, the South was already stretched thin to the breaking point at this time- where were more resources to succor Vicksburg going to come??

I don't want to lay too much blame with the Confederate command situation, let's give credit where credit is due and that is to the Federal command which proved remarkably daring and intrepid, resourceful and resolute as Chartreux points out. That Grant and the Federals were finally able to exploit weaknesses on the Confederate side, well that was their job to do. It may well be as Sam & Chartreuse say that Union failures lulled the Confederates to a degree and they were unaware or unable to right their weaknesses before disaster come aknocking.

Bashing President Davis only goes so far as well. He had a huge territory to defend with never near close to adequate forces from the get go. If he was to defend a certain point with more resources than locally available it would have to be with resources moved and thus weakening another already too limited source.

And why did President Davis defend territory? What he wanted was mobile armies that would take the fight to the enemy. Yet he had to a certain degree to wage a static defense. Unquestionably Vicksburg was essential to the fortunes of the Rebellion and must be held at all costs. Therefore no little resources were going to have to be committed on that front. However let us not forget that Davis suffered a great deal from what Lincoln too had to deal with in the North- the politics of fighting the war. Each and every Southern governor clamored for protection and adequate defense of their bailiwicks. each took measures to keep their own resources on their own homefronts, some as egregious as Georgia's Brown and others less so, but they all worried about home. And they all had mouthpieces, loud, shrill, and demanding at that, in the Confederate capital. These forces could not be ignored and to face the greater evil Davis needed to placate to a goodly extent this lesser one. Troops and resources were going to have to be scattered a good bit throughout the Confederacy like it or not. It was the only way to oil this particular engine- or expect lots of trouble and expense that could very well undo the Confederacy. Resources were lost this way- not everything would be brought to bear, and bearable resources were mighty slim pickins. His only real choice was juggling, and the Confederate juggling act could be seriously disrupted with what and how Grant was going to get in among them.
 
To paraphrase Pickett, I think Grant had something to do with Vicksburg. His campaign was brilliant, so it's hard to blame the disaster on Johnston or Davis.

That said, I do not think that Jefferson Davis was faultless. Joe Johnston ordered Pemberton to abandon the city and to join forces with him (Johnston). Johnston regarded the city as a trap. Davis, however, encouraged Pemberton to retain the city at all costs. If I recall correctly, Davis did not notify Johnston of his advice to Pemberton. Davis thus committed two errors. He gave terrible advice, and he did not tell his overall field commander that he was giving it.

Thus Pemberton was in effect caught between contradictory orders. Pemberton was not a gifted man, and his instinct was to retain the city; he did not recognize that Johnston's order was clearly correct. (In fairness, it may be unreasonable to have expected Pemberton to disregard the clear wishes of the president, his commander in chief.) Thus, Pemberton wound up losing both the city and the army.

As for troop levels, I'm not sure that I blame either Davis or Johnston (I assume the earlier post referring to Bragg meant to refer to Johnston). Davis had already transferred 20,000 troops from Bragg to Pemberton in early December 1862, which may well have spelled the difference between victory and perceived defeat at Stones River. After the scare in late 1862 (which resulted in the troop transfer mentioned above), Pemberton became confident that Grant could do nothing and delivered optimistic reports that would have given Davis no reason to consider additional transfers even if they had been feasible. After Stones River, Bragg was facing Rosecrans in the Tullahoma area and had no troops to spare. At all events, even if Pemberton had had more troops, it's doubtful that he would have used them in a way that would have made a difference.

By April 30, when Grant began crossing the river, it was probably too late to transfer troops from Bragg in time. If I recall correctly, there was no way to transfer troops quickly; it probably would have taken at least three weeks to get troops from the Tullahoma area to the Jackson/Vicksburg area, and again that assumes that Bragg had troops available. Grant's final campaign, however, basically took only a little over two weeks. By May 17, when the Battle of the Big Black River occurred, the game was essentially over. Once Pemberton was bottled up in the city, it became a matter of time.

There was one other option: transfer of troops from the trans-Mississippi. Perhaps someone else can comment on whether this would have been feasible and effective.
 
First, let me defend Pemberton. He resigned and did finish the war fighting for the South, in artillery, a Captain, I think.
Jeff Davis and his "Defensive" war; from the beginning, Davis advocated that 'we only want to be let alone'. Today oil is the bargaining factor. No matter how much you want to be left alone, if you are an oil rich country, and that knowledge is known world wide, you are not going to be left alone. In 1860 it was 'white gold'. Davis' concept of defensive war has never worked. The South didn't have a precedent in 1860. If they had taken Uncle Billy's attitude and marched on Washington after Manassas, pulled Abe's pants down and striped his legs with a willow switch, he would have left them alone. Like the schoolyard bully when I went to school, throw sand in his eyes and gnaw part of an ear off, and he will leave you alone.
The Southern concept of the war differed from the Northern concept, and as throughout history, the concept of agression won.
 
tex cav (dismount)

Compliments ,Sir,
Long and short of it Bragg was a jerk. He had no chance of getting a relief colum in there after the battle around black river. The real bite was Pemberton(Gen.) had to pay attention to what Bragg said "Fight Your Way Out"- and what Jeff davis said _ "Hold At All Costs(vicksburg)". On top of that he (pemberton) was a born Yankee (Penn) I think. Who is gonna trust him????
Point being No one came to his rescue when southern Armies could of. They were late. This was not an unusal situation.

Gauss
Where were these reinforcements suppose to come from?Did any of the Western command have any intelligence on what forces that Grant had?Was Davis in one of his romantic dillusional states? The ideal that Pemberton could "FIGHT "his way out was simlar to telling the Christians to FIGHT their way out of Constanople with the Turskish army just hoping that they would do that.The hardest part to acceept is that Pemberton surrendered a whole army .I wondered what Johnston did when he heard Pemberton's surrender?What the Confederate army could have done with it.Would Sherman been free to do his march or would have stated in the West?
 
tex cav (dismount)

Compliments ,Sir,
Long and short of it Bragg was a jerk. He had no chance of getting a relief colum in there after the battle around black river. The real bite was Pemberton(Gen.) had to pay attention to what Bragg said "Fight Your Way Out"- and what Jeff davis said _ "Hold At All Costs(vicksburg)". On top of that he (pemberton) was a born Yankee (Penn) I think. Who is gonna trust him????
Point being No one came to his rescue when southern Armies could of. They were late. This was not an unusal situation.

Gauss

To be fair to Bragg, he did send Pemberton 10,000 men under Carter Stevenson in the winter - weakening his own army on the eve of Murfreesboro - and sent Johnston about 7-8,000 men under Breckenridge in May/June - leaving him outnumered by around 15,000 men in the Tullahoma Campaign.
 
tex cav (dismount)

Compliments ,Sir,
Long and short of it Bragg was a jerk. He had no chance of getting a relief colum in there after the battle around black river. The real bite was Pemberton(Gen.) had to pay attention to what Bragg said "Fight Your Way Out"- and what Jeff davis said _ "Hold At All Costs(vicksburg)". On top of that he (pemberton) was a born Yankee (Penn) I think. Who is gonna trust him????
Point being No one came to his rescue when southern Armies could of. They were late. This was not an unusal situation.

Gauss
There is a bio on Bragg"Braxton Bragg- The Most Hated Man of the Confederecy" Hess.It is about how Bragg has been demoniized by historians past and present. I found it on AMAZON. It gives supports the ideal that Bragg was not the general that has been reported as being.Those around him used him for their own failures.That Davis choosing him was like when he selected Hood to defend Atlanta.I have ordered my copy just to read if what has been written is false according to a another view .ls that not what we seek in history.the truth about man/women?
 
After being constantly told that they needed more man power at Vicksburg at the surrounding areas. And having said that they needed to protect Vicksburg at "all costs". Why didnt he do just that!!

They knew that eventually that the federals would attack Vicksburg sooner or later.

What do yall think???

Davis' dilemma was simple: Vicksburg needed to be held at all costs. Richmond needed to be held at all costs. Chattanooga needed to be held at all costs. Mobile needed to be held at all costs. Charleston needed to be held at all costs. It all cost too much manpower.
 
Davis' dilemma was simple: Vicksburg needed to be held at all costs. Richmond needed to be held at all costs. Chattanooga needed to be held at all costs. Mobile needed to be held at all costs. Charleston needed to be held at all costs. It all cost too much manpower.

'Our men are tougher and our cause is just', just wasn't enough, as the South was fighting with fewer material resources and men. Given these shortages out of the gate, they couldn't afford inefficiencies or recover from huge strategy mistakes, while the North could. The Davis, Johnston, Pemberton communication fiasco was unforgivable given what the South was up against.
 
No doubt Davis or Johnston or Bragg would have been delighted to send troops to Vicksburg - if they had them. The Confederates were outnumbered and in danger on every front; even Lee's victory at Chancellorsville had been a far closer run thing than the outcome might suggest. They were like a juggler trying to juggle too many balls.
 
'Our men are tougher and our cause is just', just wasn't enough, as the South was fighting with fewer material resources and men. Given these shortages out of the gate, they couldn't afford inefficiencies or recover from huge strategy mistakes, while the North could. The Davis, Johnston, Pemberton communication fiasco was unforgivable given what the South was up against.
If the Confedercey had known this prior to firing on Sumter ,would they have ?Would they have even succeeded? Was the South hoping for a quick set of victories and then hopefully then Lincoln would have negoitaed a treaty? Could they been hoping that once the North realized that they were really serious this time then the admistration would have been forced, via the demand from those who had investments in the South, to settle to most if not all of the South's request?
 
I am no defender of Davis but let us remember (as Georgia Sixth points out) there were several places in the Confederacy that had to be held at all costs. Reinforcements were needed at several places and lets not forget the little fight going on at the same time in Pennsylvania.
 
Another old thread revived... fine, though, it's a fair question as far as the OP goes.

The South's perennial problem was that they had a lot of territory to defend and not a lot of means with which to defend it.
 
No doubt Davis or Johnston or Bragg would have been delighted to send troops to Vicksburg - if they had them. The Confederates were outnumbered and in danger on every front; even Lee's victory at Chancellorsville had been a far closer run thing than the outcome might suggest. They were like a juggler trying to juggle too many balls.
The more I read the more I have determined that the Conferedercey was in no way militaryly ready for this war.No matter how long it lasted no matter how many time they checked the movement of the Federals,no matter how many battles they won,and no matter how much glory that the army achieved,from the start the South could not match the Feds for resourses in hardward and most inprotant personel. I know that there has been in history nations that have over come large forces but most of these have had outside allies that suppiled them with the essentials. Without these supplies the South had no way to replace old or used materials.Nutrition came into play for the South I am a person who ancestors go back to Va colony and fought for the Confedercey on both sides of my family.
 
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