Why couldn't Southerns love their home in 1861 without secession...especially in South Carolina which seceded first?

ebg12

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#1
Why couldn't Southerns love their home in 1861 without secession...especially in South Carolina which seceded first? What about the great population of slaves...did they love their homes too? If so, what was the underground railroad about?
 

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#2
Southerners love of home was, in their view, threatened by northern abolitionist policies. The John Brown raid on Harper's Ferry, in particular, persuaded many southerners that northern abolitionists would change their society for the worse. Hence, in their view, secession was a defensive reaction to northern abolitionism, and a way to protect their homes.
I'm not endorsing, or opposing, this point of view--am simply trying to explain it.
 

jgoodguy

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#4
In short, patriotism can be a very funny thing.
The difference between a rebel outlaw traitor and a patriot founding father is who wins.

A Southerner of the 1860s would be in a world whose leaders, newspapers, preachers, the elites, community leaders and local politicians told him how to love his nation.
 

jackt62

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#5
I don't really understand the question. A southern's "Love of home" is an emotional response, whereas secession was a practical response to the southern refusael to abide by the results of the 1860 National Presidential election. Whether South Carolinians loved their home or not (which they most certainly did), was irrelevant to the threat they perceived to their economic and social way of life.
 

Desert Kid

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#6
The difference between a rebel outlaw traitor and a patriot founding father is who wins.

A Southerner of the 1860s would be in a world whose leaders, newspapers, preachers, the elites, community leaders and local politicians told him how to love his nation.
Had the Confederacy became independent, Davis, Lee, Jackson, Stephens, et. al would be viewed similarly as Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton or even like Houston, Crockett and Travis.
 

jgoodguy

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#10
They more or less still are today.
The problem for the South in 1860 if they industrialize with slave labor, the slaves will be a problem. If they industrialize with whites, the whites will be a problem. If they don't industrialize, that will be a problem. Cotton demand will stagnate. The equilibrium of 1860 will fail. Bad news.

Today is modern politics.
 
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#12
In 1860, 57% of the SC's population was of African decent. Yet, one would think the state was majority non-African based on the way its history has been told.

On this board, someone made the point that "What Sherman did in Georgia was bad, but what he did in South Carolina was much worse. There were no people in Columbia welcoming Sherman and his army."

That statement is NOT correct. Charles Royster's 1991 book The Destructive War: William Tecumseh Sherman, Stonewall Jackson, and the Americans won the Bancroft Prize. In chapter 1, which discusses the capture of Columbia in February 1865, the author writes

War had changed Columbia. The city had never been large, numbering about 8,000 people in peacetime; but the war had more than tripled its population. Some people were forced into Columbia: slaveholders moved their human property. The number of black people in Columbia, usually about one third of the population, swelled with the influx of slaves. Some blacks had escaped during the relocation, had hidden in swamps, and where greeting the approaching Federal soldiers with the descriptions of the roads ahead. Blacks in the city felt sure of Sherman's destination sooner than his own men did. On January 29, a white man who heard them noted: “The n****rs sing hallelujah's for him every day."​
Some of the slaves concentrated in Columbia crew restive, and white people reacted harshly. They set up a whipping post near the market in the Assembly Street. A black man caught smuggling News to Federal prisoners in the city received 100 lashes and a promise that if he repeated the offense, he would be killed. Afterward, he told the prisoners, “Dey may kill dis ******, but dey cain’t make him hate de Yankees.” The daily whippings aroused bitter resentment among young Black men. Some of them called the Market post “Hell" and agreed among themselves to make a hell of the city once the Yankees came.​
The book goes on to note that the slaves communicated and aided Federal prisoners held in Columbia, Union soldiers who came into the city and the surrounding area, and used the Union occuation to enact acts of revenge against whites whom they believed had mistreated them.

Later in chapter 1, Royster writes

(sometime after Union soldiers had entered the city, and there had been fires and some looting) ...in Main Street, crowded with hurrying people and lit by burning stores, a lieutenant asked an old black man: “What do you think of the night, sir?” The man replied; ‘Wall I'll tell you what I dinks I dinks de day of Jubilee for me hab come."​

Many of the enslaved residents of Columbia were quite happy not just to see Sherman, but also to give him and his men military intelligence and other support.

So yes, in SC, "home" meant something different for the majority of people there than for the minority of people there. Of course the silenced majority did not have a say the secession decision. But their actions during the war help us to understand what the war meant to them. I don't think they viewed Davis, Lee, Jackson, Stephens, et. al as heroes.

- Alan
 
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#13
Again, it's hard to gauge the reactions of the silenced majority of South Carolinains, ie the enslaved, to secession. There is not much of a written record. But the below is from the Official Records, Series I, Vol IV, for late January, 1862.

Around that time, Union forces were making advances into the SC coast. Slave owners fled upland, and tried to take their slaves with them. But many of the enslaved people chose to remain in their homes.

The SC coast included Edisto Island. A Confederate picket at Watt's Cut that was under the command of Brigadier-General N. G. Evans reported that it was attacked by negroes. Those negroes, and others, were later caught by units under the command of Col. P. F. Stevens, of the Holcombe Legion.

This is correspondence from the Official Records; first, about the capture of the negroes:

Report of Brig. Gen. Nathan G. Ryan., C. S. Army.​
HEADQUARTERS THIRD MILITARY DISTRICT, Adams Run, S. C., January 25, 1862.​
CAPTAIN-I have the honor to report that the expedition under Col. P. F. Stevens, Holcombe Legion, has succeeded in capturing about 50 negroes on Edisto Island, several of whom are the negroes that attacked my pickets at Watt’s Cut. I think after a due investigation, should any of the negroes be convicted, they should be hanged as soon as possible at some public place as an example. The negroes have evidently been incited to insurrection by the enemy. I have now as prisoners several negroes, who say they can identify the men who attacked the pickets. I will keep all the negroes till the investigation is through, and would earnestly request instructions from the general commanding. The negro fellows not implicated directly I propose to iron heavily and work them under guard on the causeway now being made at Church Flats. Colonel Stevens will probably arrive to-day with the remainder of the negroes.​
Very respectfully, your obedient servant,​
N. G. EVANS, Brigadier-General, Commanding.​

This is the detailed report Col. P. F. Stevens, of the Holcombe Legion:

Report of Col. P. F. Stevens, Holcombe Legion, CS Army.​
Headquarters Third Military District,​
Adams Run, SC, January 28, 1862.​
Captain: Inclosed I have the honor to submit the report of Col. P. F. Stevens, Holcombe Legion, commanding the expedition to Edisto Island. The negro men captured I have now under guard at this place. The women and children I have sent to the workhouse in Charleston. As five of the negroes have confessed themselves as being the party that attacked my pickets on Jehossee Island, I would respectfully ask instructions as to their disposition, as it is unsafe to return them to their owners unless they be obligated to submit them to a trial for their lives, and in case of acquittal to be removed from this district. Very respectfully, your obedient servant,​
N. G. EVANS, Brigadier- General. Oapt. T. A. Washington,​
Assistant Adjutant-General, Coosawhatchie, SC​

[Inclosure.]

TO: Confederate Capt. W. H. ROGERS, Acting Assistant Adjutant-General.​
CAPTAIN: I have the honor to submit the following report:​
Pursuant to orders from the general commanding, at 6.30 a.m. on Wednesday, the 22d instant, I proceeded with a detachment to cross the Dawho on an expedition to Edisto Island. My force was 120 infantry and 65 cavalry, composed of detachments from Captain Blair’s company (attached to the Legion), Company A and Company C of the infantry, and Company A and Company B of the cavalry. Major Palmer was in command of the cavalry, while I took the more immediate charge of the infantry. The Rev. Mr. Baynard accompanied me as guide.​
After considerable delay at the inconvenient ferry near Mr. Grimball’s (three-quarters of a mile long) and at the bridge over Watt’s Cut between Jehossee Island and Edisto, I left the cut about 3.30 p.m. and began my march on Edisto. About a mile from Watt’s Cut we passed Dr. William Bailey’s place-Old Dominion; found some potatoes; corn-house burnt, together with two or three other outbuildings; 1 horse and 1 mule shot, supposed to have been killed by the pickets on Saturday in a field near by; 1 horse reported wounded. The detachment of cavalry thrown in advance examined the next plantation to the southeast of the road and reported no provisions, but the ruins of the corn-house still smoking.​
About 3 miles from the cut, just at the crossing of the Edisto Ferry road, at Mr. William Whaley’s place, found 4 negroes-Joe and his wife-belonging to Mr. Whaley, and in charge of the place; Bill, belonging to W. G. Baynard, these all old and infirm, and Peter, belonging to Henry Seabrook. Peter’s manner being very insubordinate, and his holding one hand in his pocket exciting suspicion, he was seized, searched, and tied on the discovery of a sharp knife in the pocket where he had kept his hand. Old Joe, on interrogation, confessed to having heard of the attack of Saturday, and said he could lead us to the rendezvous of the attacking party. Mounting some 30 infantry behind as many cavalry, I proceeded with this force, added to the cavalry, to the point-Miss Mary Seabrook’s-under guidance of Joe, but no trace of the negroes could be discovered. The dwelling-house had been very little used by the negroes, and their own houses deserted for a length of time. Returning to Whaley’s, I spent the night there. At Mr. Whaley’s we found some 400 bushels of corn and a few pigs.​
On the 23d sent Peter, under guard, to the pickets at Watt’s Cut with 1 horse and saddle; took 1 mule and cart and moved down the main road towards Mr. Townsend’s. One detachment of cavalry covered my front, while another visited the places on either side of the road. The detachment on the south and east of the road soon found a party of negroes, some 10 in number, whom I ordered to be taken into custody, and, through a fortunate misunderstanding of the order, they were sent immediately back to Watt’s Cut; I therefore cannot report their names or place of capture. Moving slowly until past the Episcopal Church, my advanced party captured Paul, belonging to the estate of James Clark; Penny, his wife, and Victoria, his child, belonging to Mr. Henry Bailey, and on his place. One mule and cart were taken from this place. Under guidance of Paul I directed my march towards Point of Pines, in which locality he said a number of negroes were assembled.
Arrived at Mr. Edward Whaley’s place, a number of negroes were taken in the house and yard. They had assembled here from all points. While securing these several others were taken in the adjoining roads and fields, some in buggies, some on horseback, and some in carts. Leaving a guard over the negroes taken, I moved on, under guidance of Paul, to Mr. Hopkinson’s place, while a small party, under Messrs. Elliott and Curry (I omitted to state that at Jehossee these gentlemen reported to me by order of the general commanding), proceeded to Mr. Berwick Legaré’s place.​
By this time the alarm had been given, and the negroes were on the move for the lower part of the island; the number captured was therefore less than it would otherwise have been. A number were seen by Messrs. Elliott and Curry making their escape. Crossing a long footbridge from Hopkinson’s to Mr. Edward Seabrook’s, several negroes were taken at the latter place. Our party was there joined by Major Palmer, who, with his detachment, had passed through a number of plantations, among others those of Mr. Evans Eddings, Mr. Lastree, and one belonging to the estate of Berwick Legaré. At these places he had either captured or pursued negroes, and our hands were now quite full of prisoners. The infantry being in rear, as not able to move with the celerity of the cavalry, compelled to move rapidly in order to be ahead of the alarm which was now spreading, I could not stop to take notes as to the names of the negroes or their owners.​
The alarm must have been communicated in some way to the gunboat, which was now seen approaching Mr. Seabrooke’s place. Leaving a picket there I proceeded to assemble the command, which was scattered over the three places last mentioned, and covering the march of the captured negroes, I moved back to Edward Whaley’s, where I left the negroes under guard, and taking the infantry moved rapidly back to Seabrook’s to resist a landing, which seemed imminent. On the march two shells were thrown at the Seabrook house, but by the time my party came up the boat had retired. Night closing in, I quartered the infantry at Mr. Seabrook’s and carried the cavalry to Whaley’s.​
I regret to state that at the Legaré and Seabrook places 3 negroes were either shot or drowned and a fourth wounded; 2 women and 1 man ran into the water, and, refusing or failing to come out, were fired upon and disappeared beneath the water.
Early on the 24th I dispatched the captured negroes under guard, with orders to the lieutenant that they were to be reported to the general commanding. I then proceeded with my force to the neighborhood of Mr. Townsend’s. Stopping at Major Murray’s, I endeavored, with a field glass, to examine Eddingsville, but could discover no signs of any persons in the village.​
In the mean time Major Palmer, who had gone to Townsend’s, returned with 5 negroes, and reported, on their statement, that the enemy were landing in our rear at Point of Pines. As I had heard one or two shells fired in that direction, I presumed they had thrown these to cover the landing, and thinking it prudent to secure my retreat in case the party should be greatly superior to my own, I dispatched the cavalry to cover the road by which the enemy was to approach, while I endeavored to pass it. Having passed this road, and the cavalry reporting no enemy landed, I concluded that, as I had visited nearly the entire island, my command greatly fatigued, provisions scarce, and my return so far begun, I had better continue my march home...​
The result of the expedition was the capture of some 80 negroes, men, women, and children. I brought off 9 mules, 10 horses, 5 colts, 8 carts, 1 two-horse wagon, 2 carriages, and 1 buggy...
...​
The upper portion of the island is completely deserted, and this expedition has, I think, driven off the island nearly all the able-bodied negroes, according to the information gathered. I think the negroes are congregated in large numbers on Botany Bay, in the vicinity of the fort. They have destroyed the bridges connecting Botany Bay and Eddingsville with the main island. Should it be desirable, I recommend that a force of 300 men be sent to Botany Bay, provided with the means of repairing the bridge which separates it from Edisto, and under instructions to make a surprise at night, when the gunboats cannot use their artillery. By this means I think nearly the entire force of negroes, numbering, according to accounts, some thousand, may be captured. From the confessions of some of the negroes taken, I think several of the party were concerned in the attack made on our pickets on Saturday last.​
Very respectfully,​
P. F. STEVENS, Colonel Holcombe Legion.​
Headquarters Holcombe Legion,
Camp Walsh, January 27, 1862.​

So, what did "home" and secession mean to the SC negroes in the above report? Did they mean the same thing to the negroes as it did to slave owners, and those in the Confederate military?

Remember, the negroes in the report were part of the majority of the state's population. When we talk about how the people of South Carolina felt about the war; and no reference is made to the African descent majority; then as a matter of fact we are misstating how the people of South Carolina felt about the war.

- Alan
 
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jgoodguy

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#14
In 1860, 57% of the SC's population was of African decent. Yet, one would think the state was majority non-African based on the way its history has been told.

On this board, someone made the point that "What Sherman did in Georgia was bad, but what he did in South Carolina was much worse. There were no people in Columbia welcoming Sherman and his army."

That statement is NOT correct. Charles Royster's 1991 book The Destructive War: William Tecumseh Sherman, Stonewall Jackson, and the Americans won the Bancroft Prize. In chapter 1, which discusses the capture of Columbia, the author writes

War had changed Columbia. The city had never been large, numbering about 8,000 people in peacetime; but the war had more than tripled its population. Some people were forced into Columbia: slaveholders moved their human property. The number of black people in Columbia, usually about one third of the population, swelled with the influx of slaves. Some blacks had escaped during the relocation, had hidden in swamps, and where greeting the approaching Federal soldiers with the descriptions of the roads ahead. Blacks in the city felt sure of Sherman's destination sooner than his own men did. On January 29, a white man who heard them noted: “The n****rs sing hallelujah's for him every day."​
Some of the slaves concentrated in Columbia crew restive, and white people reacted harshly. They set up a whipping post near the market in the Assembly Street. A black man caught smuggling News to Federal prisoners in the city received 100 lashes and a promise that if he repeated the offense, he would be killed. Afterward, he told the prisoners, “Dey may kill dis ******, but dey cain’t make him hate de Yankees.” The daily whippings aroused bitter resentment among young Black men. Some of them called the Market post “Hell" and agreed among themselves to make a hell of the city once the Yankees came.​
The book goes on to note that the slaves communicated and aided Federal prisoners held in Columbia, Union soldiers who came into the city and the surrounding area, and used the Union occuation to enact acts of revenge against whites whom they believed had mistreated them.

Later in chapter 1, Royster writes

(sometime after Union soldiers had entered the city, and there had been fires and some looting) ...in Main Street, crowded with hurrying people and lit by burning stores, a lieutenant asked an old black man: “What do you think of the night, sir?” The man replied; ‘Wall I'll tell you what I dinks I dinks de day of Jubilee for me hab come."​

Many of the enslaved residents of Columbia were quite happy not just to see Sherman, but also to give him and his men military intelligence and other support.

So yes, in SC, "home" meant something different for the majority of people there than for the minority of people there. Of course the silenced majority did not have a say the secession decision. But their actions during the war help us to understand what the war meant to them. I don't think they viewed Davis, Lee, Jackson, Stephens, et. al as heroes.

- Alan
Even today I see a lot of Southerners this and that ignoring the diversity of the South.
 

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