Who Was Considered American During the Civil War

Bee

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Thanks, Joshism, for that. :smile:

Native Americans were never residents of the United States, you see. The United States were intruders who felt they had a right to everything because they could make productive use of it - unlike the people already making productive use of it.

The problem with comparing Natives with Confederates is this: the Confederates once made an agreement to form a union with other American states and therefore were Americans. They differed from their companions, however. Indians were never part of that deal.

At the time Eli Parker said his famous quote, being an American was the necessary thing to accept. If not, you were a 'wild' Indian subject to whatever military or legal action was necessary to corral you. Parker continued to maintain his Indian identity and place with his people, but outside there he dressed an acted like an American. Lots of that - Indian at home, white everywhere else!

There's also another oddity - the term American doesn't always mean a citizen of the United States.
Whew! You came back just in time, Diane! I could not have said it nearly as well. As a side note, many still continue to live "dual lives".
 

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wausaubob

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Thanks, Joshism, for that. :smile:

Native Americans were never residents of the United States, you see. The United States were intruders who felt they had a right to everything because they could make productive use of it - unlike the people already making productive use of it.

The problem with comparing Natives with Confederates is this: the Confederates once made an agreement to form a union with other American states and therefore were Americans. They differed from their companions, however. Indians were never part of that deal.

At the time Eli Parker said his famous quote, being an American was the necessary thing to accept. If not, you were a 'wild' Indian subject to whatever military or legal action was necessary to corral you. Parker continued to maintain his Indian identity and place with his people, but outside there he dressed an acted like an American. Lots of that - Indian at home, white everywhere else!

There's also another oddity - the term American doesn't always mean a citizen of the United States.
Very interesting. Parker's influence on helping some tribes see the only feasible path to survival would be an interesting topic.
Edited.
 

Joshism

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They were on the continent but they were considered to be separate nations from the United States.
Native Americans were never residents of the United States, you see.
The problem with comparing Natives with Confederates is this: the Confederates once made an agreement to form a union with other American states and therefore were Americans. They differed from their companions, however. Indians were never part of that deal.
African-Americans were made residents as involuntarily as Native Americans. They lacked any nation status once here, but weren't native to the continent and didn't immigrate voluntarily like European immigrants.

I find it difficult to answer the question of "who was a great American" if we cannot agree with a consistent definition of who is or isn't an American.
Edited.
 

John Hartwell

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According to Webster's:
webster.jpeg
I would maintain that for the purpose of most of our discussions here on CWT, only definition #3 is pertinent. To extend it to include the others renders all discussion, in effect, meaningless ... and serves only to derail threads and obstruct understanding. To do so is a deliberate ploy and amounts to nothing less than trolling.
 
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Northern Light

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By that logic prior to 1868 there were no great African-Americans because they were denied citizenship.

Was nobody prior to 1776/1783 a great American?

Surely one can be an American without being an American citizen. Are immigrants who are not yet citizens not yet Americans either?
Depends on who you ask.
 

Northern Light

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Let me reiterate the manner in which I raised the question of Native Americans:

1. Native Americans fought against the US while being residents of the US, preferring the independence of their tribes.

2. Lee fought against the US while being a resident of the US, prefering the independence of the CSA.

If Native Americans can be considered great Americans then Confederates can be considered great Americans.

"I am glad to see one real American here."
"We are all Americans."
-Lee & Ely Parker at Appomattox
I am sorry, Joshism, I misinterpreted what you wrote. Please accept my apologies.
 

archieclement

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According to Webster's:
I would maintain that for the purpose of our discussions here on CWT, only definition #3 is pertinent. To extend it to include the others renders all discussion, in effect, meaningless ... and serves only to derail threads and obstruct understanding. To do so is a deliberate ploy and amounts to nothing less than trolling.
Still using Webster's

Definition of inhabitant
: one that occupies a particular place regularly, routinely, or for a period of time

An inhabitant of the US doesn't have to be a citizen of the US........they still occupy the US regularly, routinely, or for a period of time as their place of residence...............and to be native just means one is born within the borders of the area your defining, kinda why American Indians are also referred to as Native American...........
 
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Still using Webster's

Definition of inhabitant
: one that occupies a particular place regularly, routinely, or for a period of time

An inhabitant of the US doesn't have to be a citizen of the US........they still occupy the US regularly, routinely, or for a period of time as their place of residence...............and to be native just means one is born within the borders of the area your defining, kinda why American Indians are also referred to as Native American...........
you don't call an inhbitant of some place a someplacian but at inhabitant of some place
 

Northern Light

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Still using Webster's

Definition of inhabitant
: one that occupies a particular place regularly, routinely, or for a period of time

An inhabitant of the US doesn't have to be a citizen of the US........they still occupy the US regularly, routinely, or for a period of time as their place of residence...............and t o be native just means one is born within the borders of the area your defining, kinda why American Indians are also referred to as Native American...........
As the native people lived here first and they did not call it America, are they still Americans? If a person is working in the US with their company but comes from somewhere else, are they American? No. They are just living in America. If your company transfers you to England for a couple of years, are you English? No. Habitation in a country does not make you a resident of that country.
 
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As the native people lived here first and they did not call it America, are they still Americans? If a person is working in the US with their company but comes from somewhere else, are they American? No. They are just living in America. If your company transfers you to England for a couple of years, are you English? No. Habitation in a country does not make you a resident of that country.
as someone from the americas you, my dear, are an american, but not a citizen of the us. if i lived in montana for a year and a half i'd be neither (i promise i won't do that)
 
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it's all about the question how we define american for the purpose at hand. if it's citizen of the us we need to define citizen

someone allowed to vote?
  • women?
  • children?
someone able to obtain a us-passport?
  • definately neither blacks nor natives are americans
 

archieclement

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As the native people lived here first and they did not call it America, are they still Americans? If a person is working in the US with their company but comes from somewhere else, are they American? No. They are just living in America. If your company transfers you to England for a couple of years, are you English? No. Habitation in a country does not make you a resident of that country.
Here one can indeed be a permanent resident of the US without being a citizen, they can even be soldiers within the US military..........don't see how a permanent resident wouldn't be considered an inhabitant............
 

civilken

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I always liked general grants explanation. About us being two kinds of people if you know the statement you know how I feel
 


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