Discussion Who Should Have Been Promoted But Wasn't?

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Here's a question I would be interested in hearing opinions on. . . which officers, Union and/or Confederate, do you think deserved promotion but didn't receive it? Why?

I, for one, think Jubal Early should have been promoted to command of the Second Corps after his performance in the Chancellorsville Campaign.
You mean the same Jubal Early who squandered the last gasp opportunity to attack and take DC, along with Lincoln and most of his Cabinet and the Congress because he stopped not just once but TWICE to collect ransoms from towns along his route of march as revenge for burning of towns in the South. The stopping for petty revenge that prevented a total Confederate victory? Stonewall would probably just burned the towns and Lee would have just marched through them, both of them keeping their eyes on the goal--DC.
 
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Pat Cleburne, one of the finest division commanders in the CSA, whose aggressive leadership ability was demonstrated at places like Tunnel Hill, Ringgold's Gap, and Pickett's Mill. But his advocacy for enlisting slaves was suppressed by Davis, and most likely ended chances for promotion.
What if Lee following Jackson's untimely death had tapped him to come east and have the "Stonewall of the West" to replace the original Stonewall.
 

Scott1967

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What if Lee following Jackson's untimely death had tapped him to come east and have the "Stonewall of the West" to replace the original Stonewall.
Not sure he was that good but we will never know , Like many commanders in the war especially in the South their legends were built after the war had ended and while Cleburne stood out their were question marks raised.

Personally I rate Bate above Cleburne but as i said above Bate did not get that legendary treatment that Pat did.
 

Luke Freet

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Not sure he was that good but we will never know , Like many commanders in the war especially in the South their legends were built after the war had ended and while Cleburne stood out their were question marks raised.

Personally I rate Bate above Cleburne but as i said above Bate did not get that legendary treatment that Pat did.
I do not rate Bate to highly. Bate was fantastic as a division commander, but in most of his battles as a division commander, he fails every time. His division was one of the first to collapse at Missionary Ridge; his men were involved in the botched attack at Dallas; his men drifted so far to the right at Peachtree Creek they were never engaged; were repulsed quickly at Bald Hill (though one can argue thats more due to the whole flanking plan of Hood's not being so air tight), and at Nashville its his men on Shy Hill who are completely overrun due to poor positioning, and marks the start of the rout at that battle.
I'd say his only success as a division commander was at Utoy Creek, though I need to do more reading of that engagement.
I'd say he's one of those "promoted too quickly" guys. Should have remained in brigade command after Chickamauga, at least.
 

jackt62

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What if Lee following Jackson's untimely death had tapped him to come east and have the "Stonewall of the West" to replace the original Stonewall.
I don't think that would have been feasible. Lee had 2 experienced division commanders to choose from: Ewell and AP Hill. Based on their performance in those commands, Lee had every expectation that both men would be suitable material for higher Corps command. In fact, Ewell was very well suited to take over parts of Jackson's Corp, given his prior familiarity and effectiveness under Jackson's command. Cleburne was still a basically unknown quantity to Lee and bringing an outsider to the ANV would only have made sense had there been no other suitable candidates in the ANV.
 

rpkennedy

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I don't think that would have been feasible. Lee had 2 experienced division commanders to choose from: Ewell and AP Hill. Based on their performance in those commands, Lee had every expectation that both men would be suitable material for higher Corps command. In fact, Ewell was very well suited to take over parts of Jackson's Corp, given his prior familiarity and effectiveness under Jackson's command. Cleburne was still a basically unknown quantity to Lee and bringing an outsider to the ANV would only have made sense had there been no other suitable candidates in the ANV.

Not to mention that Cleburne was junior to a bunch of division commanders in the AoNV which likely would have caused a lot of friction. Richard S. Ewell, Lafayette McLaws, A.P. Hill, Richard H. Anderson, J.E.B. Stuart, George E. Pickett, and John B. Hood were all senior to Cleburne.

Ryan
 

jackt62

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Not to mention that Cleburne was junior to a bunch of division commanders in the AoNV which likely would have caused a lot of friction. Richard S. Ewell, Lafayette McLaws, A.P. Hill, Richard H. Anderson, J.E.B. Stuart, George E. Pickett, and John B. Hood were all senior to Cleburne.

Ryan
Right, one thing that Lee still had available to him in spring of 1863 was a large crop of capable division commanders (and lower ranked officers to move up). By 1864, the situation might have been very different given the loss of officers and Lee's disappointment with the performances of Ewell and Hill. But even then, the idea of bringing in an outsider would not have found favor.
 

67th Tigers

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Based on Rich Mountain, I always thought Rosecrans was more worthy of elevation than McClellan. There was that pesky seniority problem as well as McClellan's deftness in political maneuvering.

I think Rich Mountain exposes Rosecrans' weaknesses. He did not efficiently communicate his route to McClellan, took a very long time to reach the Hart House, was repulsed in his first attempt to seize it, and after he seized it (defeating a force he outnumbered around 7:1) he went passive and didn't push onto his objective (Camp Garnett). Worse, he never communicated events to McClellan, and didn't even try.

If anyone showed themselves worthy of promotion at Rich Mountain, it was Robert McCook.
 

James N.

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I don't think that would have been feasible. Lee had 2 experienced division commanders to choose from: Ewell and AP Hill. Based on their performance in those commands, Lee had every expectation that both men would be suitable material for higher Corps command. In fact, Ewell was very well suited to take over parts of Jackson's Corp, given his prior familiarity and effectiveness under Jackson's command. Cleburne was still a basically unknown quantity to Lee and bringing an outsider to the ANV would only have made sense had there been no other suitable candidates in the ANV.
As I recall the only example of a more or less "Western" general being brought East - instead of the more usual other way around - didn't work out too well. Henry "Harry" Heth was another Virginian, personally known to Lee from the Old Army and said to be the only one Lee called by his first name. He had been commanding a brigade or division under Kirby Smith during his and Bragg's joint campaign in Kentucky in the Fall of 1862 but was largely unengaged in the fighting there. In Lee's reorganization of his army after Chancellorsville, Heth was brought in to take command of a NEW division in A. P. Hill's new Third Corps that consisted of two of Hill's former brigades plus two others. We all know what transpired only a few weeks later!
 

ErnieMac

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As I recall the only example of a more or less "Western" general being brought East - instead of the more usual other way around - didn't work out too well. Henry "Harry" Heth was another Virginian, personally known to Lee from the Old Army and said to be the only one Lee called by his first name. He had been commanding a brigade or division under Kirby Smith during his and Bragg's joint campaign in Kentucky in the Fall of 1862 but was largely unengaged in the fighting there. In Lee's reorganization of his army after Chancellorsville, Heth was brought in to take command of a NEW division in A. P. Hill's new Third Corps that consisted of two of Hill's former brigades plus two others. We all know what transpired only a few weeks later!
Your point is well taken with regard to Gettysburg which was Heth's first battle as a division commander. He does seem to have performed creditably during the rest of the War.
 

jackt62

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As I recall the only example of a more or less "Western" general being brought East - instead of the more usual other way around - didn't work out too well. Henry "Harry" Heth was another Virginian, personally known to Lee from the Old Army and said to be the only one Lee called by his first name. He had been commanding a brigade or division under Kirby Smith during his and Bragg's joint campaign in Kentucky in the Fall of 1862 but was largely unengaged in the fighting there. In Lee's reorganization of his army after Chancellorsville, Heth was brought in to take command of a NEW division in A. P. Hill's new Third Corps that consisted of two of Hill's former brigades plus two others. We all know what transpired only a few weeks later!
Of course, Heth was already known to Lee, from service in western Virginia, before being sent west. There is also a common belief that Heth was the only officer who was "permitted" to call Lee by his first name, which shows that there was a certain familiarity and comfort on the part of Lee with Heth.
 

ErnieMac

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Confederate Colonel Thomas T. Munford served as a cavalry brigade commander and, briefly at the end of the War, as a division commander at the rank of colonel. He performed capably throughout the War and was recommended for promotion on a number of occasions, but passed over in favor of junior officers. A number of sources list him as a general, but he was never confirmed nor commissioned at that rank.
 

Luke Freet

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Confederate Colonel Thomas T. Munford served as a cavalry brigade commander and, briefly at the end of the War, as a division commander at the rank of colonel. He performed capably throughout the War and was recommended for promotion on a number of occasions, but passed over in favor of junior officers. A number of sources list him as a general, but he was never confirmed nor commissioned at that rank.
Yeah, Its quite odd. I guess it must have been due to the lack of proper political conncetions.
 

Luke Freet

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You mean the same Jubal Early who squandered the last gasp opportunity to attack and take DC, along with Lincoln and most of his Cabinet and the Congress because he stopped not just once but TWICE to collect ransoms from towns along his route of march as revenge for burning of towns in the South. The stopping for petty revenge that prevented a total Confederate victory? Stonewall would probably just burned the towns and Lee would have just marched through them, both of them keeping their eyes on the goal--DC.
No way in hell Early could have take DC, even without Sixth Corps. DC, even without all the troops stripped from its defenses, was still quite formidable. Attacking head on a massive fortress CITY with an army of just 16000 men would have been too costly. The fact his army could get to the gates of DC was enough to frighten northerners into wanting to divert men to the Valley to deal with the threat, just as Jackson did in the Valley in 1862. In the end, the Union managed to concentrate their forces under Sheridan and defeat Early, but Early definitely gave Sheridan a run for his money, despite being outnumbered two to one at Winchester and Cedar Creek.
As many faults as I have with Early, I cannot fault him for not taking DC with his tiny army.
 

Scott1967

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I do not rate Bate to highly. Bate was fantastic as a division commander, but in most of his battles as a division commander, he fails every time. His division was one of the first to collapse at Missionary Ridge; his men were involved in the botched attack at Dallas; his men drifted so far to the right at Peachtree Creek they were never engaged; were repulsed quickly at Bald Hill (though one can argue thats more due to the whole flanking plan of Hood's not being so air tight), and at Nashville its his men on Shy Hill who are completely overrun due to poor positioning, and marks the start of the rout at that battle.
I'd say his only success as a division commander was at Utoy Creek, though I need to do more reading of that engagement.
I'd say he's one of those "promoted too quickly" guys. Should have remained in brigade command after Chickamauga, at least.
We will beg to differ on that one Luke , I personally don't think any commander could have stood that charge on Missionary Ridge and I think you do him a disservice at Dallas where Bate used initiative one of the very few CSA commanders to do so.

Peachtree Creek is interesting Bate was on the far right of the attack and a bit isolated from the rest of Hardee's divisions of which Cleburne was in reserve , In which ever case all division commanders proved ineffective that day

Utoy Creek where numbers can be debated Bate at least caused 5-1 ratio in casualties one of the best of the war , And having 7 horse's shot out from under him and being seriously wounded 4 times nobody can doubt he was one of the bravest commanders in the AoT.
 

Luke Freet

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We will beg to differ on that one Luke , I personally don't think any commander could have stood that charge on Missionary Ridge and I think you do him a disservice at Dallas where Bate used initiative one of the very few CSA commanders to do so.

Peachtree Creek is interesting Bate was on the far right of the attack and a bit isolated from the rest of Hardee's divisions of which Cleburne was in reserve , In which ever case all division commanders proved ineffective that day

Utoy Creek where numbers can be debated Bate at least caused 5-1 ratio in casualties one of the best of the war , And having 7 horse's shot out from under him and being seriously wounded 4 times nobody can doubt he was one of the bravest commanders in the AoT.
I mean, that doesn't really make up for the ****ups he did at Peachtree Creek, that "everyone else messed up there". Cleburne had far more successes as a division commander, in many of the same battles that Bate falls apart at, see Missionary Ridge and Bald Hill.
I stand by that he was promoted too quickly, that he was a solid brigade commander but a weak division commander.
 
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