Restricted When General Lyon's Statue Had to be Moved

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RobertP

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Do you write something similar every time you see some Confederate commemoration being recounted on this site? How about when there is a Civil War reenactment? If a Catholic university changes the name of a campus site, what does that have to do with the murder rate in St. Louis? Are you suggesting that they stop doing anything else until they get better gun control? Perhaps the school should suspend classes so the students and staff can work full-time on the crime/poverty/violence issue.
First of all I don’t comment on re-enactments or commemorations involving re-enactors because it’s just not my thing. But it does seem to me that those people are adding something and not taking away.

And yes, removing anything Confederate is sold as something that will make folks feel better about themselves and in return perform better. That’s not working out so well in Memphis, New Orleans and in my city, Dallas, where murders this year are at a 25 year high. Removing the Lee statue was supposed to be salve on the old wounds but so far not so much.
 

19thGeorgia

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Lyons: "I would see you, and you, and you, and every man, woman, and child in the State, dead and buried."

Seems that Lyons had a habit of killing women and children. Before Camp Jackson there was Bloody Island-

"On May 15, 1850, a 1st Dragoons Regiment of the United States Cavalry contingent under Nathaniel Lyon, then still a lieutenant, and Lieutenant J. W. Davison tried to locate Augustine's band to punish them. When they instead came upon a group of Pomo on Badon-napoti (later called Bloody Island), they killed old men, women and children."
 

Pat Young

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Lyons: "I would see you, and you, and you, and every man, woman, and child in the State, dead and buried."

Seems that Lyons had a habit of killing women and children. Before Camp Jackson there was Bloody Island-

"On May 15, 1850, a 1st Dragoons Regiment of the United States Cavalry contingent under Nathaniel Lyon, then still a lieutenant, and Lieutenant J. W. Davison tried to locate Augustine's band to punish them. When they instead came upon a group of Pomo on Badon-napoti (later called Bloody Island), they killed old men, women and children."
Are you suggesting that the reason the statue was moved was out of concern for the rights of Native Americans?
 
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Joshism

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This thread sure has a lot of whataboutism (especially prior to Moderator intervention).

Whether it's appropriate to honor General Frost by having a campus named after him should not be based on the demographics or crime rates of St. Louis, the religious affiliation of the college, the political affiliation of a majority of the local residents, or the price of tea in China. Frost was a little-know Confederate brigade commander from the state where the college is located whose descendant made a substantial donation to the college in his memory. Full stop.

I'm all for removing the Lyon statue simply because it's ugly. Not relocating, but sending it to the scrap heap.

I am in favor of renaming the campus the Jackson Campus. Not after the governor for whom the camp was named, but after the camp itself being a historically significant site. (Camp Jackson Campus sounds weird).
 
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Patrick H

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Do you think that they changed history by moving his statue at the behest of a donor sympathetic to the Confederate cause?
Pat, no one EVER changed history by moving a monument, but I know you have always understood that.

The problem with Lyon is that he was incredibly controversial in his own lifetime and he continues to be so today. He's not too much unlike John Brown in that regard.

...and...You already know that I don't have much use for either one of them.

Just watch now. Some of the usual suspects will chime in to tell me how unfair my opinion is to Lyon. That's okay.

As for a Confederate sympathizer asking for the removal, that's no different than today's removals. It's just a matter of who is doing the asking. I know you have always understood that, too.
 
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Ultimately, since monuments are public sculptures, they are also subject to public opinion... just look at all the Roman & Greek sculptures that inspired the 19th century examples! I do think that any removal or relocation ought to be well considered by professional historians and then placed to a public vote rather than having anyone (as in this case) act unilaterally. Though truth be told it is a ugly statue. The drunk general and Bendy the wonder horse weren’t ever destined for greatness.

Mind you my opinion above only applies to statues that aren’t egregiously offensive, like generic memorials or somesuch. Something like a statue of Nathan Beford Forrest or with a racist inscription should be torn down with prejudice.
 

archieclement

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Ultimately, since monuments are public sculptures, they are also subject to public opinion... just look at all the Roman & Greek sculptures that inspired the 19th century examples! I do think that any removal or relocation ought to be well considered by professional historians and then placed to a public vote rather than having anyone (as in this case) act unilaterally. Though truth be told it is a ugly statue. The drunk general and Bendy the wonder horse weren’t ever destined for greatness.

Mind you my opinion above only applies to statues that aren’t egregiously offensive, like generic memorials or somesuch. Something like a statue of Nathan Beford Forrest or with a racist inscription should be torn down with prejudice.
I agree, the one thing Sacco got right, was quoting the mayor that people dont have to go see it. And they really havent.....in either location
 
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