What was Lincoln's plan for Fort Sumter if it had been allowed to be resupplied with food ?

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jgoodguy

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Had nothing to do with Republicans the Northern population was tired of the government and the country being run rough shod over by Southeners and slave owners, and were demanding that the government stand up for itself...
Which was why the Republicans were elected instead of the usual crowd.
 

Lost Cause

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Had nothing to do with Republicans the Northern population was tired of the government and the country being run rough shod over by Southeners and slave owners, and were demanding that the government stand up for itself...
Revenge was certainly in the air, and Lincoln needed a rallying cry. There was also substantial dissent against Lincoln from the Copperheads and others.
 
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Carronade

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The only reason for Lincoln to hand over Fort Sumter was to recognize the independence of South Carolina and the Confederacy - as any Confederate of the era would agree.

The question has been posed whenever this topic comes up - without an overt act by the rebels like bombarding Sumter, what could Lincoln do? There's never been much of answer, other than hope the seven states would fail to make a go of it or that Unionist sentiment would reassert itself. It could happen, or it might not; either way it's not much of a policy.
 
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jgoodguy

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The only reason for Lincoln to hand over Fort Sumter was to recognize the independence of South Carolina and the Confederacy - as any Confederate of the era would agree.

The question has been posed whenever this topic comes up - without an overt act by the rebels like bombarding Sumter, what could Lincoln do? There's never been much of answer, other than hope the seven states would fail to make a go of it or that Unionist sentiment would reassert itself. It could happen, or it might not; either way it's not much of a policy.
The problem is that it didn't happen so we can only speculate on Lincoln's policy.
 

W. Richardson

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the Lincoln administration could wait for Davis, Pickens et al. to make the next move.

I think it's accurate to say that Lincoln wanted the secessionists to instigate hostilities, if there were to be a shooting war. But that's NOT the same thing as wanting there to be armed conflict.


Hi Andy,

I do not think any intelligent man ever wanted armed conflict. There is no doubt that Lincoln knew what his actions would generate. He may "not" have wanted it but he knew what his actions would bring and he provoked it to get his "first shot by the enemy" plan. As I have stated before I am not sure who outsmarted whom, as both Lincoln and Davis got what they wanted & needed............Lincoln got his (First shot by the enemy), Davis got ( The much needed upper South)................... In all honestly with 700,000+ deaths, I don't think anyone was smart.

January 9th 1861.............The Star of the West was fired on by Cadets from the Citadel attempting to resupply Fort Sumter........................Lincoln knew this..........and then opted to send in supplies.

Caleb Smith..................Felt it would provoke a Civil War and it would not be wise under all the circumstances to attempt to provision Fort Sumpter

Edward Bates......................Felt it would be better to evacuate than to be an active party in beginning a Civil War.

Salmon P. Chase.....................Felt it would inflame a Civil War..........If the attempt will so inflame civil war as to involve an immediate necessity for the enlistment of armies and the expenditure of millions, I cannot advise it in the existing circumstances of the country

Simon Cameron.................Believed the attempt would initiate a bloody and protracted conflict.........if, with all the lights before me, and in the face of so many distinguished military authorities on the other side, I did not believe that the attempt to carry it into effect would initiate a bloody and protracted conflict.

William H. Seward..............Felt it would provoke a war...............I reply, no, I would not initiate a war to regain a useless and unnecessary position on the soil of the seceding States. I would not provoke war in any way now.

Stephen Hurlbut, Lincoln's "agent"....................Believed it would bring on the worst and informed Lincoln to be prepared for the worst..................."I cannot close without repeating to the President, that this is a time to expect and be prepared for the worst.

Orville Hickman...................He "Lincoln" himself conceived the idea, and proposed sending supplies, without an attempt to reinforce giving notice of the fact to Gov. Pickens of S. C. The plan succeeded. They attacked Sumter—it fell, and thus, did more service than it otherwise could.

Lincoln replied to Trumbull, in private and confidential ..............."The tug has to come & better now, than anytime hereafter..............

Lincoln replied to Kellogg, in private and confidential............"The tug has to come & better now than later.



Lincoln may not have wanted an armed conflict, but his actions provoked it. He need the Confederacy to fire that first shot and he provoked it and got his needed action from the Confederacy....................

Provoking a war that kills 7000,000+ is about as bad as wanting an armed conflict.................Neither side was clean in this war or it's causes.



CW Crossed Flags.jpg

Respectfully,
William
 

jgoodguy

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Hi Andy,

I do not think any intelligent man ever wanted armed conflict. There is no doubt that Lincoln knew what his actions would generate. He may "not" have wanted it but he knew what his actions would bring and he provoked it to get his "first shot by the enemy" plan. As I have stated before I am not sure who outsmarted whom, as both Lincoln and Davis got what they wanted & needed............Lincoln got his (First shot by the enemy), Davis got ( The much needed upper South)................... In all honestly with 700,000+ deaths, I don't think anyone was smart.

January 9th 1861.............The Star of the West was fired on by Cadets from the Citadel attempting to resupply Fort Sumter........................Lincoln knew this..........and then opted to send in supplies.

Caleb Smith..................Felt it would provoke a Civil War and it would not be wise under all the circumstances to attempt to provision Fort Sumpter

Edward Bates......................Felt it would be better to evacuate than to be an active party in beginning a Civil War.

Salmon P. Chase.....................Felt it would inflame a Civil War..........If the attempt will so inflame civil war as to involve an immediate necessity for the enlistment of armies and the expenditure of millions, I cannot advise it in the existing circumstances of the country

Simon Cameron.................Believed the attempt would initiate a bloody and protracted conflict.........if, with all the lights before me, and in the face of so many distinguished military authorities on the other side, I did not believe that the attempt to carry it into effect would initiate a bloody and protracted conflict.

William H. Seward..............Felt it would provoke a war...............I reply, no, I would not initiate a war to regain a useless and unnecessary position on the soil of the seceding States. I would not provoke war in any way now.

Stephen Hurlbut, Lincoln's "agent"....................Believed it would bring on the worst and informed Lincoln to be prepared for the worst..................."I cannot close without repeating to the President, that this is a time to expect and be prepared for the worst.

Orville Hickman...................He "Lincoln" himself conceived the idea, and proposed sending supplies, without an attempt to reinforce giving notice of the fact to Gov. Pickens of S. C. The plan succeeded. They attacked Sumter—it fell, and thus, did more service than it otherwise could.

Lincoln replied to Trumbull, in private and confidential ..............."The tug has to come & better now, than anytime hereafter..............

Lincoln replied to Kellogg, in private and confidential............"The tug has to come & better now than later.



Lincoln may not have wanted an armed conflict, but his actions provoked it. He need the Confederacy to fire that first shot and he provoked it and got his needed action from the Confederacy....................

Provoking a war that kills 7000,000+ is about as bad as wanting an armed conflict.................Neither side was clean in this war or it's causes.



View attachment 83008
Respectfully,
William
Yes. The separatists provoked a disastrous and bloody war by their illegal acts.
 
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brass napoleon

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Lincoln replied to Trumbull, in private and confidential ..............."The tug has to come & better now, than anytime hereafter..............

Lincoln replied to Kellogg, in private and confidential............"The tug has to come & better now than later.
William, you've taken these quotes out of context. These quotes were issued before Fort Sumter was even occupied by United States forces. They were made in reference to compromising over the extension of slavery into the territories, and had absolutely nothing to do with Fort Sumter or any other military issue.
 

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http://tinyurl.com/oufo3va

For those curious about the context.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd like to see the other quotes in context as well, if we're to take them as establishing anything about Lincoln.
I believe most of the other quotes were made at a time when Winfield Scott had advised them that Fort Sumter couldn't be held. Notice also that the words "felt it would inflame a civil war" and the like, are invariably William's, and not the words of the person William attributed them to. I wonder why that is. :unsure:

Regarding Salmon Chase's quote, it should be noted that he was Secretary of the Treasury, and he was saying that any movement that could possibly result in war would be inadvisable "in the existing circumstances", because the country was entirely unprepared, both financially and militarily, for a protracted war. And of course Lincoln did nothing to prepare the country financially and militarily for a civil war either, which is more evidence that he didn't want war, rather than the claim William is making.
 
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Elennsar

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I believe most of the other quotes were made at a time when Winfield Scott had advised them that Fort Sumter couldn't be held. Notice also that the words "felt it would inflame a civil war" and the like, are invariably William's, and not the words of the person William attributed them to. I wonder why that is. :giggle:
I'm sure there's a good reason.

Regarding Salmon Chase's quote, it should be noted that he was Secretary of the Treasury, and he was saying that any movement that could possibly result in war would be inadvisable "in the existing circumstances", because the country was entirely unprepared, both financially and militarily, for a protracted war. And of course Lincoln did nothing to prepare the country financially and militarily for a civil war either, which is more evidence that he didn't want war, rather than the claim William is making.
Isn't context wonderful?
 

jgoodguy

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We Need to ask William how many days Lincoln had the keys to the Whitehouse restrooms before Davis whup up on him.
 

wilber6150

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Hi Andy,

I do not think any intelligent man ever wanted armed conflict. There is no doubt that Lincoln knew what his actions would generate. He may "not" have wanted it but he knew what his actions would bring and he provoked it to get his "first shot by the enemy" plan. As I have stated before I am not sure who outsmarted whom, as both Lincoln and Davis got what they wanted & needed............Lincoln got his (First shot by the enemy), Davis got ( The much needed upper South)................... In all honestly with 700,000+ deaths, I don't think anyone was smart.

January 9th 1861.............The Star of the West was fired on by Cadets from the Citadel attempting to resupply Fort Sumter........................Lincoln knew this..........and then opted to send in supplies.

Caleb Smith..................Felt it would provoke a Civil War and it would not be wise under all the circumstances to attempt to provision Fort Sumpter

Edward Bates......................Felt it would be better to evacuate than to be an active party in beginning a Civil War.

Salmon P. Chase.....................Felt it would inflame a Civil War..........If the attempt will so inflame civil war as to involve an immediate necessity for the enlistment of armies and the expenditure of millions, I cannot advise it in the existing circumstances of the country

Simon Cameron.................Believed the attempt would initiate a bloody and protracted conflict.........if, with all the lights before me, and in the face of so many distinguished military authorities on the other side, I did not believe that the attempt to carry it into effect would initiate a bloody and protracted conflict.

William H. Seward..............Felt it would provoke a war...............I reply, no, I would not initiate a war to regain a useless and unnecessary position on the soil of the seceding States. I would not provoke war in any way now.

Stephen Hurlbut, Lincoln's "agent"....................Believed it would bring on the worst and informed Lincoln to be prepared for the worst..................."I cannot close without repeating to the President, that this is a time to expect and be prepared for the worst.

Orville Hickman...................He "Lincoln" himself conceived the idea, and proposed sending supplies, without an attempt to reinforce giving notice of the fact to Gov. Pickens of S. C. The plan succeeded. They attacked Sumter—it fell, and thus, did more service than it otherwise could.

Lincoln replied to Trumbull, in private and confidential ..............."The tug has to come & better now, than anytime hereafter..............

Lincoln replied to Kellogg, in private and confidential............"The tug has to come & better now than later.



Lincoln may not have wanted an armed conflict, but his actions provoked it. He need the Confederacy to fire that first shot and he provoked it and got his needed action from the Confederacy....................

Provoking a war that kills 7000,000+ is about as bad as wanting an armed conflict.................Neither side was clean in this war or it's causes.



View attachment 83008
Respectfully,
William
Yes its aways better for President to do nothing and let US troops be starved into submission and not do a thing to help them:nah disagree:
 
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civilken

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I don't know but I believe it was the biggest mistake the South could do by firing on Fort Sumter they lost the moral high ground in Europe by not having the North fire on them. For all of Jeff Davises intelligence and he was this was a gross political and military mistake honestly how can you say Northern aggression when you fired first I never quite understood that but say you slap me and I push you back and it's my fault.
 

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I don't know but I believe it was the biggest mistake the South could do by firing on Fort Sumter they lost the moral high ground in Europe by not having the North fire on them. For all of Jeff Davises intelligence and he was this was a gross political and military mistake honestly how can you say Northern aggression when you fired first I never quite understood that but say you slap me and I push you back and it's my fault.
The South never had the moral high ground to lose.
 
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