Kentucky Derby Cavalier.
First Sergeant
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2019
Hey folks, so interesting story, I'm looking for a particular Fowler, or muzzleloading shotgun of a certain design. The catch is that the Fowler in question would have to resemble something used during 1862 New Mexico Campaign. Since Sibley recruited men mainly from East Texas I'm curious if anyone know of any East Texas gun smiths that were around a couple decades before the War? Possibly even from other places that we're in close proximity to the South but not in Texas. States like Louisana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama.
This post presupposes that there was a "Texas style" of Fowler, or at bare minimum, Fowlers made in Texas, or non military smoothbores used by Sibley's boys.
I've asked a question similar to this before, but I actually didn't know many of soldiers in New Mexico didn't have military grade weapons, many provided their own. Here is our good friend, Rusk County Avengers bringing in his expertise on the topic.
"I'm away from my library right now, but as I recollect from several first hand accounts by men of the Sibley Brigade they were armed with principally, and in order from most to least:"
1. "Shotguns- Every account I've read mentions very large numbers of shotguns. Single barrel ones probably outnumbered double-barrels"
2. "Colt revolvers- Again everyone mentions them being common, if I were to guess from numbers sold in Texas in order from most to least, I'd say M1849 pockets, M1851 Navies, M1848 Dragoons, and very small few of fluted cylinder M1860 Armies, (I say small number of them because around 200-300 made it to dealers in San Antonio before secession and right after)."
3. "Squirrel Rifles"- Most accounts mention that there were a few around, but never in any large number. Most Squirrel Rifles in Texas back then were full stocked Southern Poor Boy rifles running from .32-.40 calibers. I doubt many of them were around, simply because keeping them supplied with their round ball ammo would be a major pain that Texas and the CSA had no time to make for general issue, and were a royal pain to load compared to shotguns and Minie rifles, especially on horseback."
4. "D-Guard Bowie knives- I bet a few made it out there."
5. "Lances- Yeah I think we all know the story...."
"The main thing I've always noticed from first hand accounts is that there is almost no mention of military arms. The Sibley Brigade/Army of New Mexico was probably the only army to take to the field without any or only small numbers. This is probably because the endeavor was almost entirely promoted and carried out by the State of Texas with the CSA only giving them permission to go for it, but very little material support, after all Federal armies threatening places like Richmond and Nashville was more important that Texans going wild in New Mexico for either gold in California or redemption from the Republic of Texas's failed Santa Fe Expedition."
Rusk put me onto the Idea that Fowlers were probably the most common long arm used. Ok, so now that's established what do you think those Fowlers looked like? If you know a little bit about American long guns of the 18th and 19th century, you know that different makers had different styles, and depending upon what reigon you were in the USA back then, that would also effect the look of said firearm. Let me give some examples.
Check out this the "1840s ish" Fowler made in Alabama. https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...m-antique-fowler-shotgun.cfm?gun_id=101183307
Or maybe this "Virginia" style fowler? http://sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/k-57/
Or maybe this Fowler that was made in England? It could've been an import right? https://www.ima-usa.com/products/or...piece-by-clarke-of-london?variant=26169789765
Maybe in towns like Marshal, Rusk, and Nagodoches? Maybe they had gunsmiths that would've provided the men of the New Mexico expedition with their weapons?
Thoughts?
Oh, and here is the original post I wrote about the weapons used in New Mexico that I cite. https://civilwartalk.com/threads/we...ted-volunteers-during-the-nm-campaign.169927/
This post presupposes that there was a "Texas style" of Fowler, or at bare minimum, Fowlers made in Texas, or non military smoothbores used by Sibley's boys.
I've asked a question similar to this before, but I actually didn't know many of soldiers in New Mexico didn't have military grade weapons, many provided their own. Here is our good friend, Rusk County Avengers bringing in his expertise on the topic.
"I'm away from my library right now, but as I recollect from several first hand accounts by men of the Sibley Brigade they were armed with principally, and in order from most to least:"
1. "Shotguns- Every account I've read mentions very large numbers of shotguns. Single barrel ones probably outnumbered double-barrels"
2. "Colt revolvers- Again everyone mentions them being common, if I were to guess from numbers sold in Texas in order from most to least, I'd say M1849 pockets, M1851 Navies, M1848 Dragoons, and very small few of fluted cylinder M1860 Armies, (I say small number of them because around 200-300 made it to dealers in San Antonio before secession and right after)."
3. "Squirrel Rifles"- Most accounts mention that there were a few around, but never in any large number. Most Squirrel Rifles in Texas back then were full stocked Southern Poor Boy rifles running from .32-.40 calibers. I doubt many of them were around, simply because keeping them supplied with their round ball ammo would be a major pain that Texas and the CSA had no time to make for general issue, and were a royal pain to load compared to shotguns and Minie rifles, especially on horseback."
4. "D-Guard Bowie knives- I bet a few made it out there."
5. "Lances- Yeah I think we all know the story...."
"The main thing I've always noticed from first hand accounts is that there is almost no mention of military arms. The Sibley Brigade/Army of New Mexico was probably the only army to take to the field without any or only small numbers. This is probably because the endeavor was almost entirely promoted and carried out by the State of Texas with the CSA only giving them permission to go for it, but very little material support, after all Federal armies threatening places like Richmond and Nashville was more important that Texans going wild in New Mexico for either gold in California or redemption from the Republic of Texas's failed Santa Fe Expedition."
Rusk put me onto the Idea that Fowlers were probably the most common long arm used. Ok, so now that's established what do you think those Fowlers looked like? If you know a little bit about American long guns of the 18th and 19th century, you know that different makers had different styles, and depending upon what reigon you were in the USA back then, that would also effect the look of said firearm. Let me give some examples.
Check out this the "1840s ish" Fowler made in Alabama. https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...m-antique-fowler-shotgun.cfm?gun_id=101183307
Or maybe this "Virginia" style fowler? http://sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/k-57/
Or maybe this Fowler that was made in England? It could've been an import right? https://www.ima-usa.com/products/or...piece-by-clarke-of-london?variant=26169789765
Maybe in towns like Marshal, Rusk, and Nagodoches? Maybe they had gunsmiths that would've provided the men of the New Mexico expedition with their weapons?
Thoughts?
Oh, and here is the original post I wrote about the weapons used in New Mexico that I cite. https://civilwartalk.com/threads/we...ted-volunteers-during-the-nm-campaign.169927/