Chattanooga What really happened at Chattanooga?

I think I read somewhere that logan did like thomas. He ended up dispising sherman though
Logan did not forget Sherman's refusal to give him command of the AotT. Years later, as chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee (or whatever they called it then), Logan pushed through legislation that resulted in a pay cut for senior army officers, specifically Sherman who was then Commanding General of the US Army.
 
I stlll maintain, though I cannot produce the citation, that Grant took a long lunch the day of the attack. He permitted the division and brigade commanders of the army of the Cumberland to proceed up the ridge, if they could, without requiring it. The Cumberland Army did not believe the Confederate Army of Tennessee could whip the Cumberlanders in a fair fight, and they were pretty determined to prove it.
There is a lot of unnecessary confusion about the dramatic assault up Missionary Ridge by the AotC. They had been instructed to take the Confederate rifle pits at the base of the ridge, but once having done so, remaining in that exposed position was untenable for long. So the safest course of action was the spontaneous charge up the ridge, which is exactly what happened. And of course, the Cumberlanders were riled up enough to act aggressively even without direct orders because of the desire to overcome the Union defeat at Chickamauga.
 
There is a lot of unnecessary confusion about the dramatic assault up Missionary Ridge by the AotC. They had been instructed to take the Confederate rifle pits at the base of the ridge, but once having done so, remaining in that exposed position was untenable for long. So the safest course of action was the spontaneous charge up the ridge, which is exactly what happened. And of course, the Cumberlanders were riled up enough to act aggressively even without direct orders because of the desire to overcome the Union defeat at Chickamauga.
Has anyone else read that Grant ordered a retreat from orchard knob?
 
Stanley at Franklin was superior to Schofield, but Schofield was in command due to being a department commander. I suspect Grant was confused, as he wanted Schofield to replace Thomas, then ordered Logan to Nashville, then decided to go himself.
One of the many things that Grant was not was confused. The text of the telegraphic traffic between Grant, Sherman & Thomas leaves no room for any question. While preparing for the March to the Sea, Thomas’ part in the campaign was fully understood by all concerned. As commander of the Department of the Cumberland, Thomas had 240,000 men under his command. Grant was on the receiving end of a poison pen campaign by Schofield. As it was, Thomas put together a battle plan that is a subject of officer training world wide to this day.
 
Has anyone else read that Grant ordered a retreat from orchard knob?
Grant had no way to know what the tactical situation on Orchard Knob. The assault did exactly what Thomas intended it to do, it fixed Hood’s right in place & focused Hood’s attention. CSA veterans of Orchard Knob recalled two things. One their admiration for the valor & determination of the USCT attackers & their bone deep shock when they saw Hood’s center & right running in panic in their rear.
 
Grant's original plan utterly failed. The army of the Cumberland saved the day, again
Grant's orders to Thomas on the night before were:
I have instructed General Sherman to advance as soon as it is light in the morning, and your attack, which will be simultaneous, will be in co-operation. Your command will either carry the rifle-pits and ridge directly in front of them or move to the left, as the presence of the enemy may require.
The only part that failed was that Thomas should "be simultaneous" . Thomas dragged his feet waiting for Hooker, leaving Sherman without the promised cooperation.
 
Grant's orders to Thomas on the night before were:
I have instructed General Sherman to advance as soon as it is light in the morning, and your attack, which will be simultaneous, will be in co-operation. Your command will either carry the rifle-pits and ridge directly in front of them or move to the left, as the presence of the enemy may require.
The only part that failed was that Thomas should "be simultaneous" . Thomas dragged his feet waiting for Hooker, leaving Sherman without the promised cooperation.
To be fair, sherman had what 4 divisions? Attacking the wrong hill?
 
Grant's orders to Thomas on the night before were:
I have instructed General Sherman to advance as soon as it is light in the morning, and your attack, which will be simultaneous, will be in co-operation. Your command will either carry the rifle-pits and ridge directly in front of them or move to the left, as the presence of the enemy may require.
The only part that failed was that Thomas should "be simultaneous" . Thomas dragged his feet waiting for Hooker, leaving Sherman without the promised cooperation.
Actually, as is documented in David Powell’s recent book, the time between Grant’s order & it’s execution was surprisingly short.
 
Actually, as is documented in David Powell’s recent book, the time between Grant’s order as & it’s execution was surprisingly short.
The order I’m talking about was from the night before and it said Thomas was supposed to attack in the morning

If your talking in the afternoon when Grant finally insisted that Thomas get on with it, then sure 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Schofield was, administratively, in the Dept of the Cumberland. The forces concentrated in Nashville were, no matter where they came from, or what their title was, subordinate to the commander of the Army of the Cumberland. Under Grant, the kind of command by hissy fit that plagued the A of TN & some Union commands was stomped out. I have never read what Grant’s opinion of Schofield was. He did not have a reputation for admiring curtain climbers, but I await enlightenment from somebody who has taken a dive into this subject. I suspect, by sending Black Jack Logan, Grant manifested his opinion of Schofield.
One problem with this idea was Grant's - like his friend Sherman's - negative attitude re untrained "political" generals (Logan) vs. members of the West point club (Schofield). That particular Good Ol' Boy clique had already bitten Logan in the butt once before, when Sherman passed him over outside Atlanta, giving command of the Army of the Tennessee to outsider - but West Pointer! - O.O. Howard. Grant was certainly complicit in that undeserved promotion and he had early in his career distrusted Logan, despite his gift for oratory, because he was a political appointee. Since he'd already in effect passed Logan over before it's hard to imagine he wouldn't do it again!
 
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One of the many things that Grant was not was confused...
Grant had no way to know what the tactical situation on Orchard Knob. The assault did exactly what Thomas intended it to do, it fixed Hood’s right in place & focused Hood’s attention. CSA veterans of Orchard Knob recalled two things. One their admiration for the valor & determination of the USCT attackers & their bone deep shock when they saw Hood’s center & right running in panic in their rear.
Rhea, Grant may not have been confused but I'm afraid either you are, or else I am - I believe you've somehow regressed to the Nashville discussion, since neither Hood nor any USCT troops were at Chattanooga's Orchard Knob in 1863.
 
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There is a back story... really a back-stab-back-story to the Grant /Thomas/Nashville hoo-ha. Schofield was pulling a Hood, sending critical messages through a back channel to Washington. When Thomas was told about Schofield’s subterfuge, his response was, ‘Why would he do such a thing?’ When the light went on, like Hood, Schofield schemed to get his boss’ job. It is ironic that Grant, who despised backstabbing gossip mongers, would fall victim to Schofield’s insubordination.
If you wonder why Schofield’s messages, which became an open secret, were not included in the official record, look on the title page. He used his editorship to sanitize his chronic curtain climbing & the reaction to it.
On the substantive side, Grant & Thomas were very different generals. Grant was all about tempo, the embodiment of the OODA curve. Thomas was a deep preparation smash-em with one great blow general. They both had great victories, but in very different ways.
This allegation of Schofield sending messages to Washington behind Thomas' back came from pro-Thomas partisans. When asked about it after the war, Grant wrote that it never happened.

Schofield gets a bad rap, but in my opinion, he really should be given more credit for the Franklin-Nashville campaign.
 
This allegation of Schofield sending messages to Washington behind Thomas' back came from pro-Thomas partisans. When asked about it after the war, Grant wrote that it never happened.

Schofield gets a bad rap, but in my opinion, he really should be given more credit for the Franklin-Nashville campaign.
Didn't schofield award himself a medal?
 
Not to go too far off-topic, but here is what Grant wrote to Schofield in 1881 after Schofield asked Grant to comment on the post-war charge that he had contacted Washington behind Thomas' back at Nashville:

"but , writing from memory , I think I can say with great positiveness there was never any despatch from you to me , or from you to any one in Washington , disparaging General Thomas ' s movements at Nashville . On the contrary , my recollection is that when I met you on your way to Wilmington , N . C . , subsequent to the battle of Nashville , you explained the situation at Nashville prior to General Thomas ' s movement against Hood , with a view of removing the feeling that I had that Thomas had been slow .​
...​
I have certainly no recollection of receiving any despatches from Nashville , during the time spoken of in the article in the “Democrat," from any person but General Thomas himself . I feel very sure that if any despatches had been received from you , I should now recollect it ; and I am free to say that it would have created a prejudice to your disadvantage if I had received such despatches . This much you are at liberty to use in any way you may deem proper."​
 
One problem with this idea was Grant's - like his friend Sherman's - negative attitude re untrained "political" generals (Logan) vs. members of the West point club (Schofield). That particular Good Ol' Boy clique had already bitten Logan in the butt once before, when Sherman passed him over outside Atlanta, giving command of the Army of the Tennessee to outsider - but West Pointer! - O.O. Howard. Grant was certainly complicit in that undeserved promotion and he had early in his career distrusted Logan, despite his gift for oratory, because he was a political appointee. Since he'd already in effect passed Logan over before it's hard to imagine he wouldn't do it again!
The issue of posting Howard over Logan was explained at that time. As Grant personally told Logan, Howard understood the management, logistical & technical duties of army command. Grant made it very clear that his decision was in no way a reflection on Logan. It must also be said that very quickly the doubtful Westerners came to respect & value Howard. The feeling was mutual.
 
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