Chattanooga What really happened at Chattanooga?

A good example of how the Grant/Sherman clique was biased towards the Army of the Tennessee to the detriment of the Army of the Cumberland.
😃 :dance: You seem to have been out voted by the Confederate regiments at the top of Missionary Ridge. They seem to have not made careful distinctions between the initial plan and the improvised plan. This may have been influenced by men in the divisions assigned to Joe Hooker, who raised a US flag at the top of Lookout Mountain, in the morning. It was one of those occasions when Grant guessed correctly, I guess. That the Confederate regiments on the Confederate left watched that flag fly in the wind all day, and had a generally correct appraisal of what it meant with respect to their being cutoff from Georgia and the railroad.
 
😃 :dance: You seem to have been out voted by the Confederate regiments at the top of Missionary Ridge. They seem to have not made careful distinctions between the initial plan and the improvised plan. This may have been influenced by men in the divisions assigned to Joe Hooker, who raised a US flag at the top of Lookout Mountain, in the morning. It was one of those occasions when Grant guessed correctly, I guess. That the Confederate regiments on the Confederate left watched that flag fly in the wind all day, and had a generally correct appraisal of what it meant with respect to their being cutoff from Georgia and the railroad.

Of course, the Confederate regiments were poised to defend Missionary Ridge regardless of any change in plans. But Cleburne's defense at Tunnel Hill against Sherman and the AOTT was the only successful attempt to hold off the federal assault; in contrast, the Confederate defense at the center of Missionary Ridge was flawed and ultimately unsuccessful. That doesn't detract from the Army of the Cumberland's efforts, but Grant still tried to shield Sherman's failed effort from negative publicity. Grant's initial plan was a good one, and the seizure of Lookout Mountain on the Union right, with the Starts and Stripes flying all day, was definitely a blow to Confederate morale.
 
@wausaubob, this is how American Caesar by William Manchester portrayed the event. On page 13 and 14 it begins;

"....Confederate Army of Tennessee, 46,165 strong....a continuous chain of gray-clad sentries...walked the crest...two lines of works...."
"....59,359 men of the Union Army of the Cumberland....ordered to feel for the confederate position the next morning....An intricate series of maneuvers by Sherman ended up in a ravine on Bragg's right. Stalled, Sherman asked for a demonstration
[to Grant]....At 3:30 Grant sent [...] word to seize the Confederate rifle pits at the base of the ridge. At 4:15 the men were ready. At 4:20 the signal guns were heard...and the assault began....Legend has it that Phil Sheridan drained half a pint of whiskey, hurled the bottle up the slope [...] and climbed after it...."

I had a question as to whether this legend was as well-known as what Grant spoke to Thomas? It seems 'Little Phil' drank the same kind of whiskey as Grant!!
Lubliner.
 
Sherman's success was that he got to Chattanooga. And he got there before the US force in Knoxville was in serious trouble.
His failed assault nonetheless relieved pressure on Knoxville and made it possible for the US divisions to stretch the Confederate position on the Confederate west and south.
Not always, but sometimes 90% of success is showing up.
 
Sherman's success was that he got to Chattanooga. And he got there before the US force in Knoxville was in serious trouble.
His failed assault nonetheless relieved pressure on Knoxville and made it possible for the US divisions to stretch the Confederate position on the Confederate west and south.
Not always, but sometimes 90% of success is showing up.

Overall, I am a fan of Sherman and yes, he was successful in getting to Chattanooga but that still doesn't absolve him of the bungled assault at the northern end of Missionary Ridge.
 
I forgot to post this last Sunday and I was wondering where I was gonna post it. This seems like a good place. A couple of months ago I finished reading The Shipwreck Of Their Hopes. It contains the best account of the Battle Of Lookout Mountain that I've read. It says that the Alabama Regiments at Lookout Mountain had been captured,paroled and exchanged at Vicksburg. After they were exchanged,not all got new uniforms and the weapons they were issued were inferior muskets/rifles/pistols that had been turned in by other troops that had gotten new weapons. The soldiers also wrote about how bad their rations were in Tennessee. Some of those troops were captured again at Lookout Mountain and ended up among the first Confederate prisoners that were sent to Rock Island.
My memory fails me but read an account from a CSA soldier who wondered if “we can’t stop them (Yankees) here with heights and trenches then, where can we stop them?”
Paraphrasing here
 
My memory fails me but read an account from a CSA soldier who wondered if “we can’t stop them (Yankees) here with heights and trenches then, where can we stop them?”
Paraphrasing here
I think that was Missionary Ridge and it was a high-ranking officer that said it.
 
I would imagine that it was due to Grant knowing Sherman's troops better than the AotC.
True - Grant always gravitated towards the known quality and quantity, and he hadn't been impressed by either Buell, Thomas, or Rosecrans, the former commanders of the AOC, all of whom he had grudges against.
 
True - Grant always gravitated towards the known quality and quantity, and he hadn't been impressed by either Buell, Thomas, or Rosecrans, the former commanders of the AOC, all of whom he had grudges against.
Well, Sherman was from Ohio and his brother was a Senator, so there was a reason they wanted Sherman to be the hero. In addition, during the Vicksburg, Jackson campaign, Sherman's divisions did a lot of marching for they did not get much credit. Also Sherman's son had died, and Grant wanted something good to happen for his friend.
 
While Grant was no fan of Buell, Thomas, or Rosecrans, Grant's favoritism towards Sherman was rooted in the way they bonded together in the early days of the war when both commanders were disparaged by the press. In Sherman's case, his shaky leadership of the Kentucky Department in 1861 was considered by the press to be hysterical; in Grant's case, the press blamed him for drinking leading to the massive casualties that occurred at Shiloh. To these events, Sherman remarked

"Grant is a great general. I know him well. He stood by me when I was crazy and I stood by him when he was drunk. And now sir, we stand by each other always."
 
What happened at Chattanooga, was a fairly common occurancd in the CW. A version of the Law of unintended resultss. As at Shiloh Chickamauga,etc. the expected resul of the battle plan, occurs at the opposite end of the battle, from where it was intended..

All the major commanders including Thomas, knew the plan and apparently expressed no misgivings. All the generals recconoited Tunnel Hill and all missed the fact that Tunnel Hill was a separate posiition from the confederate MLR., i.e. even if Sherman had delayed his advance util the confederates finished their planned retrreat from the Tunnel Hill Position, Sherman would have have had any effecton the main confederate defenses.

Thomas' planned diversionary attack on confederate skirmish lines at the base of Missionary Ridge, was implemented to support Sherman's frustrated attack on Tunnel Hill, with the spectacular results recorded in the history books.

As noted before all thrrough this forum, battle plans seldom survive the first contact with the enemy, it is how well, or not, the leaders respond to the unknown opportunities presented by the unknown resuults of their plans, no matter how carefully prepared.
 
While Grant was no fan of Buell, Thomas, or Rosecrans, Grant's favoritism towards Sherman was rooted in the way they bonded together in the early days of the war when both commanders were disparaged by the press. In Sherman's case, his shaky leadership of the Kentucky Department in 1861 was considered by the press to be hysterical; in Grant's case, the press blamed him for drinking leading to the massive casualties that occurred at Shiloh. To these events, Sherman remarked

"Grant is a great general. I know him well. He stood by me when I was crazy and I stood by him when he was drunk. And now sir, we stand by each other always."
I always wondered about Grant and Sherman during Sherman's mental breakdown. I've never seen any communication between the two at the time.
 
I always wondered about Grant and Sherman during Sherman's mental breakdown. I've never seen any communication between the two at the time.
That is true. I can't recall reading any such communication but maybe Sherman was referring to the fact that Grant did not join in the chorus of criticism against Sherman when he underwent some kind of mental distress when commanding in Kentucky. Ironically, Sherman was actually accused by the press of being hysterical ("crazy") because he privately told War Secretary Cameron that something like 200,000 troops would be needed to defend that region. In that respect, Sherman was not inaccurate when taking the long view.
 
What happened at Chattanooga, was a fairly common occurancd in the CW. A version of the Law of unintended resultss. As at Shiloh Chickamauga,etc. the expected resul of the battle plan, occurs at the opposite end of the battle, from where it was intended..

All the major commanders including Thomas, knew the plan and apparently expressed no misgivings. All the generals recconoited Tunnel Hill and all missed the fact that Tunnel Hill was a separate posiition from the confederate MLR., i.e. even if Sherman had delayed his advance util the confederates finished their planned retrreat from the Tunnel Hill Position, Sherman would have have had any effecton the main confederate defenses.

Thomas' planned diversionary attack on confederate skirmish lines at the base of Missionary Ridge, was implemented to support Sherman's frustrated attack on Tunnel Hill, with the spectacular results recorded in the history books.

As noted before all thrrough this forum, battle plans seldom survive the first contact with the enemy, it is how well, or not, the leaders respond to the unknown opportunities presented by the unknown resuults of their plans, no matter how carefully prepared.
Grant, Sherman & Thomas had personally reconnoitered the terrain. It wasn’t some vague scouting report that led to the misunderstanding. Of course, if Cleburne’s men had been on a train toward Knoxville, the break in the ridge would be one sentence in a very picky critique of the attack.
 
Grant, Sherman & Thomas had personally reconnoitered the terrain. It wasn’t some vague scouting report that led to the misunderstanding. Of course, if Cleburne’s men had been on a train toward Knoxville, the break in the ridge would be one sentence in a very picky critique of the attack.
If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his *** when he hopped
 
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