What kind of carbines and rifles would Forrest have at the Battle of Tupelo, July 1864?

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Aug 1, 2018
Location
Nashville, TN
I know a lot of his boys carried Maynards early on. The Enfields were popular among Confederates too. What were they using in the summer of '64. Was there uniformity among his Cavalry Corps, or did men mainly carried what they could find? Did a lot of them have newer weapons like captured Spencers? Was it difficult to supply ammo for multiple, and sometimes captured weapons. I'd appreciate any insight you may have.

Thanks,

Cody

Now, here's a tune:
 
From the CSR of Colonel Clark R. Barteau, 2nd/22nd Tennessee Cavalry:

Ordnance on hand at the end of 2nd Qrt 1864 (Report dated July 10th 1864)

204 Rifles cal .58
52 Rifles cal .54
57 Rifle cal .52
11 Burnside Rifles
6 Smiths Rifles
2 Maynard Rifles
54 Pistols cal .44
67 Pistols cal . 32
3 French Pistols
20 Sabers
342 Cartridge Boxes
359 Cap Boxes
168 Gun Slings
289 Haversacks
200 Canteens and Straps
188 Shoulder Straps
350 Waist Belts
100 pr Spurs
5 Bullet Molds
32 Screw Drivers
219 Saddles
166 Saddle Blankets
179 Bridles
269 Halters
22 Breast Straps
41 Cruppers
35 Curry Combs
50 Gun Boots
15454 Cartridges cal .58
4400 Cartridges cal .54
2725 Cartridges cal .52
1000 Burnside Rifle Cartridges
0 Smith's Rifle Cartridges
1000 Maynard Rifle Cartridges
0 Buck and Ball Cartridges
0 Pistol Cartridges cal .44
0 Pistol Cartridges cal .33
0 French Pistol Cartridges
 
From the CSR of Colonel Clark R. Barteau, 2nd/22nd Tennessee Cavalry:

Ordnance on hand at the end of 2nd Qrt 1864 (Report dated July 10th 1864)

204 Rifles cal .58
52 Rifles cal .54
57 Rifle cal .52
11 Burnside Rifles
6 Smiths Rifles
2 Maynard Rifles
54 Pistols cal .44
67 Pistols cal . 32
3 French Pistols
20 Sabers
342 Cartridge Boxes
359 Cap Boxes
168 Gun Slings
289 Haversacks
200 Canteens and Straps
188 Shoulder Straps
350 Waist Belts
100 pr Spurs
5 Bullet Molds
32 Screw Drivers
219 Saddles
166 Saddle Blankets
179 Bridles
269 Halters
22 Breast Straps
41 Cruppers
35 Curry Combs
50 Gun Boots
15454 Cartridges cal .58
4400 Cartridges cal .54
2725 Cartridges cal .52
1000 Burnside Rifle Cartridges
0 Smith's Rifle Cartridges
1000 Maynard Rifle Cartridges
0 Buck and Ball Cartridges
0 Pistol Cartridges cal .44
0 Pistol Cartridges cal .33
0 French Pistol Cartridges
This is great, thanks!
 
Here is a thread I did on Gen Forrest Gun Shop has some great early war info on what his command carried.

 
Here is a thread I did on Gen Forrest Gun Shop has some great early war info on what his command carried.

This, Rich. This is a big help!
 
Great stuff! And consistent with what the early authors such as Jordan & Pryor (1868) and Wyeth (1899) said: primarily short Enfields plus a belt pistol (Colt Navy preferred) or two.

Note also that Forrest had a reputation for arming many of his men from battlefield captures. Just a few months before, the 7th Tenn. Cav., McDonald's Battalion and Faulkner's Regiment (7th Kentucky Cav.) bluffed the Union City, TN garrison (primarily 7th Tenn. Cav. (U.S.)) into surrendering, thereby capturing "475 men, with their arms and ammunition, camp and garrison equipage and 300 horses" on March 24th. (Jordan & Pryor, p. 409; O.R. vol. 32, part I, pp. 609, 611 (Forrest reports)) Since the captured force was almost entirely cavalry, at this point in the war they likely had been armed with breech-loading single-shot carbines, though the after-action reports do not state. See, e.g., O.R. vol. 32, part I at pp. 542-46. A few weeks later Forrest captured "about 350 stand of small-arms" at Fort Pillow. O.R. vol. 32, part I, p. 616. (Forrest's report). Fort Pillow had been garrisoned by a mixed force of four companies (about 220 men) of heavy artillery, one section of light artillery (about 40 men) and about 250 recruits and 45 enlisted men and and officers of the 13th Tenn. Cav. (U.S.), so the arms captured there were likely a mix of infantry and cavalry arms along with the six cannon captured. O.R. vol. 32, part I, pp. 554-56.
 
From following this and the two linked older threads, my takes are that Forrest wanted his own guards to have lots of firepower since he armed virtually every one of his escort company is armed with a captured Sharpe's. And that he wanted all of his troopers to have rifled-muskets rather than shotguns ASAP, which he accomplished by the May, '64 inventory. To me that means that he wanted one long-reaching reasonably accurate shot per man, vs. two close-range inaccurate rounds from shotguns. And revolvers were hard to acquire in enough numbers for all his men. The question of so few weapons listed compared to the number of soldiers on the rosters is not uncommon in such ordnance reports, but is still really curious to me in this case. This is a really interesting thread. Thanks for the primary source posts.
 
You wouldn't think this would have been a problem but TEXAS WAS HARD PRESSED FOR GUNS. Hardware stores were raided and civilians were asked to donate anything. I've seen numerous pleas in Galveston Daily News imploring citizens to loan weapons.The state was begging for revolvers and muskets of any type. One description of Texas Rangers of that time mentioned KENTUCKY FLINTLOCK RIFLES. TEXAS managed to get some rusty 1816-22 Models from Louisiana. If you get a chance find a copy of Gary Wiggens book on the Dance Brothers pistols. Some of the Texas made guns were pretty shoddy and a number of them burst.
 
From following this and the two linked older threads, my takes are that Forrest wanted his own guards to have lots of firepower since he armed virtually every one of his escort company is armed with a captured Sharpe's. And that he wanted all of his troopers to have rifled-muskets rather than shotguns ASAP, which he accomplished by the May, '64 inventory. To me that means that he wanted one long-reaching reasonably accurate shot per man, vs. two close-range inaccurate rounds from shotguns. And revolvers were hard to acquire in enough numbers for all his men. The question of so few weapons listed compared to the number of soldiers on the rosters is not uncommon in such ordnance reports, but is still really curious to me in this case. This is a really interesting thread. Thanks for the primary source posts.
One possible reason, in part, for reduced reported arms numbers is that the quarterly returns typically did not include privately-owned arms but only those issued by the government. Federal returns were that way, and I assume Confederate were too but I do not know. I suspect captures were not always fully reported either. However, the biggest reason may simply be unavailability.

I've also been struck by the relatively low revolver numbers reported (less than one per man) given the many accounts of Rebel cavalrymen in the Western Theater armed with two or more revolvers. The likely answer may be that some units (or sub-units) were well-stocked from a combination of government issues, captures and private purchase while others were not.
 
From the CSR of Colonel Clark R. Barteau, 2nd/22nd Tennessee Cavalry:

Ordnance on hand at the end of 2nd Qrt 1864 (Report dated July 10th 1864)

204 Rifles cal .58
52 Rifles cal .54
57 Rifle cal .52
11 Burnside Rifles
6 Smiths Rifles
2 Maynard Rifles
54 Pistols cal .44
67 Pistols cal . 32
3 French Pistols
20 Sabers
342 Cartridge Boxes
359 Cap Boxes
168 Gun Slings
289 Haversacks
200 Canteens and Straps
188 Shoulder Straps
350 Waist Belts
100 pr Spurs
5 Bullet Molds
32 Screw Drivers
219 Saddles
166 Saddle Blankets
179 Bridles
269 Halters
22 Breast Straps
41 Cruppers
35 Curry Combs
50 Gun Boots
15454 Cartridges cal .58
4400 Cartridges cal .54
2725 Cartridges cal .52
1000 Burnside Rifle Cartridges
0 Smith's Rifle Cartridges
1000 Maynard Rifle Cartridges
0 Buck and Ball Cartridges
0 Pistol Cartridges cal .44
0 Pistol Cartridges cal .33
0 French Pistol Cartridges
I wonder what the French pistols were ? Lefacheux pinfires ? Odd that they had a few but no ammo. Pinfires were a bit dangerous to handle and store. Also puzzled at the lack of .36 cal but a fair number of .31 rounds and revolvers present. Musta' been a smoke 'em if ya got 'em scenario
 
I know a lot of his boys carried Maynards early on. The Enfields were popular among Confederates too. What were they using in the summer of '64. Was there uniformity among his Cavalry Corps, or did men mainly carried what they could find? Did a lot of them have newer weapons like captured Spencers? Was it difficult to supply ammo for multiple, and sometimes captured weapons. I'd appreciate any insight you may have.

Thanks,

Cody

Now, here's a tune:
BRAVO!!!
 
From following this and the two linked older threads, my takes are that Forrest wanted his own guards to have lots of firepower since he armed virtually every one of his escort company is armed with a captured Sharpe's. And that he wanted all of his troopers to have rifled-muskets rather than shotguns ASAP, which he accomplished by the May, '64 inventory. To me that means that he wanted one long-reaching reasonably accurate shot per man, vs. two close-range inaccurate rounds from shotguns. And revolvers were hard to acquire in enough numbers for all his men. The question of so few weapons listed compared to the number of soldiers on the rosters is not uncommon in such ordnance reports, but is still really curious to me in this case. This is a really interesting thread. Thanks for the primary source posts.
Thanks!
 
You wouldn't think this would have been a problem but TEXAS WAS HARD PRESSED FOR GUNS. Hardware stores were raided and civilians were asked to donate anything. I've seen numerous pleas in Galveston Daily News imploring citizens to loan weapons.The state was begging for revolvers and muskets of any type. One description of Texas Rangers of that time mentioned KENTUCKY FLINTLOCK RIFLES. TEXAS managed to get some rusty 1816-22 Models from Louisiana. If you get a chance find a copy of Gary Wiggens book on the Dance Brothers pistols. Some of the Texas made guns were pretty shoddy and a number of them burst.
Thanks!
 
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