Restricted What is the rationale behind the current wave to remove Confederate statues and Monuments?

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Jamieva

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Soldiers and sailors monument in Richmond was painted on today.

The Lee statue on Monument ave also has cameras on it due to the amount of times it has been painted over the years. So it's not just the Lincoln one.
 

18thVirginia

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Honestly, Mr. Winkler asked about the rationale for removing the statues and I tried to provide some primary sources, as did Mr. Winkler. Isn't that what we should be doing on this thread? Shouldn't posts be at least facially relevant?

Perhaps the rationale is that Confederate Memorials/Monuments continue to distort history. Here's a monument that was dedicated during the Sesquicentennial, in 2013. It's dedication was noted by a thread here on CWT. If you take a look at the monument, the part about Shelby Iron Company mentions "Extraordinary Service to the CSA" in the beginning and "TO HONOR SHELBY IRON COMPANY AND BRAVE CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS OF SHELBY COUNTY." You can read the inscription on wikipedia .

Nowhere in this memorial installed in 2013 is the fact that the first quota for slaves was set at 350 enslaved people to work at the ironworks during the Civil War. According to a source by Douglas Blackman, 350 to 400 slaves at a time were leased from owners in Alabama to work at the ironworks, since most of the white labor force had been conscripted. But somehow the contribution of the slaves escaped mention on the monument. http://shelby.ehclients.com/index.php/history/slavery

Douglas Blackman's excerpt on Shelby Iron Company and its slave labor is here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=2v-BYWrjl9IC&pg=PT58&lpg=PT58&dq=shelby+ironworks+++run+by+slaves&source=bl&ots=LheDej3LVf&sig=S17jKmPdh2HtakIGBgqe15uU19k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oL-WVcawNYGKsQWT3IDQCA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=shelby ironworks + run by slaves&f=false

Memorial_at_Shelby_Iron_Works_Park.jpg


 

Pat Young

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Perhaps the rationale is that Confederate Memorials/Monuments continue to distort history. Here's a monument that was dedicated during the Sesquicentennial, in 2013. It's dedication was noted by a thread here on CWT. If you take a look at the monument, the part about Shelby Iron Company mentions "Extraordinary Service to the CSA" in the beginning and "TO HONOR SHELBY IRON COMPANY AND BRAVE CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS OF SHELBY COUNTY." You can read the inscription on wikipedia .

Nowhere in this memorial installed in 2013 is the fact that the first quota for slaves was set at 350 enslaved people to work at the ironworks during the Civil War. According to a source by Douglas Blackman, 350 to 400 slaves at a time were leased from owners in Alabama to work at the ironworks, since most of the white labor force had been conscripted. But somehow the contribution of the slaves escaped mention on the monument. http://shelby.ehclients.com/index.php/history/slavery

Douglas Blackman's excerpt on Shelby Iron Company and its slave labor is here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=2v-BYWrjl9IC&pg=PT58&lpg=PT58&dq=shelby+ironworks+++run+by+slaves&source=bl&ots=LheDej3LVf&sig=S17jKmPdh2HtakIGBgqe15uU19k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oL-WVcawNYGKsQWT3IDQCA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=shelby ironworks + run by slaves&f=false

View attachment 72526

Strange, you would think that a war industry using slave labor would not be something you would want to commemorate.
 

BillO

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Strange, you would think that a war industry using slave labor would not be something you would want to commemorate.
Pat, in their day the bog stompers were very good slavers. There isn't a group on earth or in history that doesn't have something in their past that someone else disapproves of.
 

BillO

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How does anyone approve of slave labor in 2013?
1. Slave labor is and was a fact. It's history. My approval or disapproval doesn't matter or change a thing. To pretend otherwise is just stupid.
2. My State, Virginia, still practices slave labor. Prison work details and roadside cleaning by inmates is a form of enforced servitude and I don't have a bit of a problem with it.
 

La Tiger

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The use of the CBF by hate groups has blurred the lines between history and hatred.

I can understand their position, that it's seen as a symbol of slavery, but it really irks me that they refuse to even attempt to understand my position that it's a symbol of my Southern heritage and honoring my ancestors that fought for their homes.
 

K Hale

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The use of the CBF by hate groups has blurred the lines between history and hatred.

I can understand their position, that it's seen as a symbol of slavery, but it really irks me that they refuse to even attempt to understand my position that it's a symbol of my Southern heritage and honoring my ancestors that fought for their homes.
Its use by hate groups is a legitimate part of the flag's history as well as part of southern heritage. There is no "blurring," unless you refer to the part of history you'd rather remember vs. the part you'd rather not.
 

ForeverFree

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The use of the CBF by hate groups has blurred the lines between history and hatred.
I am somewhat exhausted over this subject, but I do feel a need to correct an inaccuracy. You say that the "use of the CBF by hate groups has blurred the lines between history and hatred." That is not correct. It was not only used by hate groups. It was used by governmental officials and civilians — "regular people" — during the resistance to the civil rights movement.

Consider the famous 1963 inauguration speech of Alabama governor George Wallace, in which he invoked the Confederacy as follows:

Today I have stood, where once Jefferson Davis stood, and took an oath to my people. It is very appropriate then that from this Cradle of the Confederacy, this very Heart of the Great Anglo-Saxon Southland, that today we sound the drum for freedom as have our generations of forebears before us done, time and time again through history. Let us rise to the call of freedom-loving blood that is in us and send our answer to the tyranny that clanks its chains upon the South. In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny . . . and I say . . . segregation today . . . segregation tomorrow . . . segregation forever.

Note that Wallace specifically and intentionally invokes the Confederacy to make his argument for continued segregation. The following image, Wallace in the front of a Confederate flag, was intentional, not coincidental.

lbj-tapesjpg-ae150e11471b530b_large.jpg


This is a link to TV coverage of a protest that occurred in New Orleans, as groups of young whites protested against school integration. From a description of the video:

In this WSB newsfilm clip from November 16, 1960, white demonstrators protest court-ordered school desegregation, city and state officials discourage demonstrations, and injured bystanders wait at the hospital in New Orleans, Louisiana; in Baton Rouge, legislators welcome a congressional delegation and speak in favor of segregation.

The clip begins in New Orleans with white demonstrators in cars driving down the street; one boy hangs out of a car window and waves a flag. A group of white protesters stand in front of New Orleans city hall and chant "Two, four, six, eight, we don't want to integrate." After a break in the clip, another group of demonstrators stands in the city's downtown shopping district with picket signs. Police and firemen turn on a hose and begin to spray the crowd; most of the demonstrators rush back from the hose although a few appear to play in the water. Two policemen carry an angry demonstrator, and groups of teenage protesters run down the street and are later held back by police.

Several demonstrators are seen brandishing flags in the video; the flags are the CBF.

Just making it clear: it is historically inaccurate to say that only hate groups associated the flag with segregation and racial supremacy. A lot of people did it. It's just that today, nobody wants to 'fess up to it. But the photographs don't lie. And the people who saw these flags being used this way have not forgotten, and they don't want their children to forget.

- Alan
 

R. Alex Raines

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I can understand their position, that it's seen as a symbol of slavery, but it really irks me that they refuse to even attempt to understand my position that it's a symbol of my Southern heritage and honoring my ancestors that fought for their homes.
Like ForeverFree, I am fairly well exhausted by this topic, but I can't let this pass. I have heard the slogan 'heritage not hate' evoked more times than I care to remember. What I can never get past is how a large part of what goes along with the heritage of that flag is the amount of hatred associated with the flag. In other words, the heritage is or cannot be divorced from the hatred. Our Southern heritage is a legacy of hatred and oppression. Our ancestors weren't simply fighting for their homes - they were rebelling against the lawful government because they believed slavery was endangered. I think part of the issue is that it is hard to objectively recognize everything that goes with the heritage.
 
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