What if.... Lincoln never called for 75,000 volunteers?

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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Location
Laurinburg NC
Here is a blip from a biography of Walter Lenior, The Making of a Confederate by William L Barney. Walter was a NC Whig and Unionist pre War. This is how the 75K Lincoln’s call up, turned him into a Confederate. Same thing happened in VA, AR and TN.

View attachment 391986
I've always liked Zeb Vance's sudden conversion.

"I was addressing a large and excited crowd, large numbers of whom were armed, and literally had my arm extended upward in pleading for peace and the Union of our fathers when the telegraphic news was announced of the firing on Sumter and the President’s call for 75,000 volunteers. When my hand came down from that impassioned gesticulation, it fell slowly and sadly by the side of a Secessionist.”

“if war must come I preferred to be with my own people. If we had to shed blood, I preferred to shed Northern blood rather than Southern blood. If we had to slay, I had rather slay strangers than my own kindred and neighbors; and it was better, right or wrong, that communities and States should go together and face the horrors of war in a body-- sharing a common fate, rather than endure the unspeakable calamities of internecine strife... The argument having ceased and the sword being drawn, all classes in the South united as by magic, as only a common danger could unite them.”

Zebulon B. Vance
 

uaskme

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Location
SE Tennessee
I've always liked Zeb Vance's sudden conversion.

"I was addressing a large and excited crowd, large numbers of whom were armed, and literally had my arm extended upward in pleading for peace and the Union of our fathers when the telegraphic news was announced of the firing on Sumter and the President’s call for 75,000 volunteers. When my hand came down from that impassioned gesticulation, it fell slowly and sadly by the side of a Secessionist.”

“if war must come I preferred to be with my own people. If we had to shed blood, I preferred to shed Northern blood rather than Southern blood. If we had to slay, I had rather slay strangers than my own kindred and neighbors; and it was better, right or wrong, that communities and States should go together and face the horrors of war in a body-- sharing a common fate, rather than endure the unspeakable calamities of internecine strife... The argument having ceased and the sword being drawn, all classes in the South united as by magic, as only a common danger could unite them.”

Zebulon B. Vance

Vance and Walter Lenoir corresponded with each other. Their conversion was universal in NC, TN, VA and AR, with Unionist.

Walter Lenoir hated Slavery and even contemplated moving to a free state, pre War.

Lincoln knew what he was doing. 5 months of Lower South’s Independence was too long. Northern Economy was falling apart. Republican Party would have splintered without action.

In 62 Lincoln stated that he thought if the South won the War, that eventually the South would want to re-unite. So, why the hurry. My prior paragraph I think explains it. Sumpter, call up of Troops. Let’s start the Party.
 

Potomac Pride

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Georgia
Here is a blip from a biography of Walter Lenior, The Making of a Confederate by William L Barney. Walter was a NC Whig and Unionist pre War. This is how the 75K Lincoln’s call up, turned him into a Confederate. Same thing happened in VA, AR and TN.

View attachment 391986
The upper southern states had all initially rejected secession but the issue that forced them to change their mind was Lincoln’s call for troops. They considered this to be a violation of state sovereignty and an illegal attempt to conquer the south. The noted historian William J. Cooper discussed the secession of the Upper South in his book that was published in 2012. Cooper is a retired Professor Emeritus of History at LSU who has also written other books on the Civil War era. In his book, Professor Cooper wrote the Upper Southern states had all originally hoped to stay in the Union. However, things changed dramatically in April 1861 when Lincoln issued his Proclamation Calling for Troops to take military action against the deep south. Cooper states in his book: "Lincoln's proclamation exploded all hope. It made plain that he intended to invade the Confederate States. Such military action meant coercion in its baldest form. The Upper South began racing toward secession. Almost overnight in Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Arkansas top-heavy Conservative-Unionist majorities turned into lopsided secessionist majorities. In these four states, conventions, legislatures, and popular referenda all testified to the powerful shift in public opinion. By early June, all had joined the Confederate States. Source: " We Have the War Upon Us: The Onset of the Civil War, Nov. 1860 - April 1861, page 271, by William J. Cooper.
 

FedericoFCavada

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San Antonio, Texas
Those troops when surrendered, march north color and all. Texas later went back on the proceedings and ordered them be taken prisoner, but they were already gone. For the most part. If they had all been made prisoner its likely one Colonel Robert E. Lee would have been in a Texas prison.
By no means all of them. It took a good long while for the more distantly posted frontier forts to make it to the Texas coast... In the meantime, secession and imminent hostilities had taken place, and so some were locked up as PoWs. Some may have been repatriated in the earlier exchanges and swaps.

Of course, the State of Texas was initially incapable of putting in replacement personnel on a good number of those frontier forts, so the Nermernuh/ Comanches did not hesitate... And neither did the professional rustlers hired by Juan Nepomuceno Cortina south of the Rio Bravo! The State of Texas CSA had to creat the TST or state troops to augment the militia defending the frontier and the Rangers, but the "pale of civilization" definitely decreased considerably in the state. Confederate-era Texas was sure a wild and wooly western state, and that continued long past the Reconstruction era!
 

JerseyBart

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You left off the Congress Shall.
I wouldn't get hung up on congress authorizing his continued call for volunteers through May and authorizing a half million more in July either. I could also bring up the militia act of 1795 but won't. So congress definitely disagreed with Lincoln and Lincoln had no legal recourse of action against the treasonous rebellion.

So I'll just say, Lincoln evil and bad, traitor states innocent and good. Fyi...this last sentence isn't off topic because Lincoln was referred to as a dictator in an earlier post.
 
Those troops when surrendered, march north color and all. Texas later went back on the proceedings and ordered them be taken prisoner, but they were already gone. For the most part. If they had all been made prisoner its likely one Colonel Robert E. Lee would have been in a Texas prison.
According to Lonnie R. Speer in his "Portals To Hell : Military Prisons of the Civil War", 2,648 U. S. soldiers were taken prisoner when Twiggs surrendered all United States soldiers and property to Texas state troops on February 16, 1861. Over the next few weeks the State released "nearly 2,350" of those POWs when the Confederacy stepped in and decided to hold and confine the remaining 300 POWs in various Texas facilities until January 2, 1863 when they were marched from Texas to Shreveport, Louisiana, and transported by boats to Baton Rouge where they were exchanged and released on February25, 1863.
 

unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution lays out the powers of Congress, not the Dictator, err, excuse me, the Executive.

No constitutional authority exists for any president to raise Armies, or pay for them, without the formal consent of Congress. Sorry.
Lincoln needed War Powers. He had to start a a war before he could get them. The reason for Ft Sumpter.

Scott advised Lincoln to abandon Ft,. Pickens and Sumpter. Lincoln offered the Southern Unionist 1 fort if VA pledged to stay in the Union. Losing both was untenable. The Radicals would of bolted ftom the Party.

Seward wanted to start a new Political Party. Exclude the Radicals in the North and South, so they could include the Southern and Northern Unionist.

Lincoln originally used the House Divided speech concerning the Republican Party. He knew he had to keep the Republican Party coalesced. The glue that held them together was No Compromise. He had 5 months to figure this out. The Radicals wanted Action.
Hogwash.

By the above lines of reasoning US troops at the attack on Pearl Harbor had no right to fire on attacking Japanese planes without an act of Congress.

Why is it so hard to see that normal, PEACETIME procedures were left in the dust at the first cannon shot at Ft. Sumter?

"Evil Lincoln." "Dictator." Both concepts are one-sided and refuse to acknowledge actual historical events.

Unionblue
 

NedBaldwin

Major
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Location
California
"ATTENTION, VOLUNTEERS! -- Nothing is more probable than that President Davis will soon march an army through North Carolina and Virginia, to Washington. Those of our volunteers who desire to join the Southern army, as it shall pass through our borders, had better organize at once for the purpose, and keep their arms, accoutrements, uniforms, ammunition and knapsacks in constant readiness."

- The Richmond Enquirer before Lincoln had called for 75,000 militia to serve the US

"Do not distrust Virginia, as sure as tomorrow’s sun will rise upon us, just so sure will Virginia be a member of this Southern Confederation. And I will tell you, gentlemen, what will put her in the Southern Confederacy in less than an hour by Shrewsbury clock–STRIKE A BLOW! The very moment that blood is shed, old Virginia will make common cause with her sisters of the South. It is impossible she should do otherwise.”
- Roger Pyror, Virginia Congressman who made this speech in Charleston,SC a few days before Ft Sumter was attacked


The rebels in Virginia intended to join the Confederates before Lincoln had even acted, he just gave them the excuse.

Lincoln's action saved the country from the attack that was already intended.
 

Rusk County Avengers

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Coffeeville, TX
"ATTENTION, VOLUNTEERS! -- Nothing is more probable than that President Davis will soon march an army through North Carolina and Virginia, to Washington. Those of our volunteers who desire to join the Southern army, as it shall pass through our borders, had better organize at once for the purpose, and keep their arms, accoutrements, uniforms, ammunition and knapsacks in constant readiness."

- The Richmond Enquirer before Lincoln had called for 75,000 militia to serve the US

"Do not distrust Virginia, as sure as tomorrow’s sun will rise upon us, just so sure will Virginia be a member of this Southern Confederation. And I will tell you, gentlemen, what will put her in the Southern Confederacy in less than an hour by Shrewsbury clock–STRIKE A BLOW! The very moment that blood is shed, old Virginia will make common cause with her sisters of the South. It is impossible she should do otherwise.”
- Roger Pyror, Virginia Congressman who made this speech in Charleston,SC a few days before Ft Sumter was attacked


The rebels in Virginia intended to join the Confederates before Lincoln had even acted, he just gave them the excuse.

Lincoln's action saved the country from the attack that was already intended.

I'm gonna throw this out there because it happens so much, buuuut.....

Newspapers then and now are the absolute WORST authority on what was going on and really only good for someone to cherry pick the point they want to make. Back then as now they tended to have political agendas, and were pros at spreading misinformation, so its hard to say this is proof of Virginia plans. Especially since its the Richmond Examiner which had as many political agendas as any of Horace Greely's papers.

This reminds me of an April 8th 1862 issue of I think its the Chicago Tribune, (its definitely a Chicago paper) in a friend of mine's museum. Its front page is of the "Battle of Pittsburg" in Tennessee, complete with a map of the city and how the Rebels had set fire too it and how hospitals full of brave Union wounded were burning with men in them and how it was an epic defeat for the Union and how everyone must steel their resolve to win and enlist, and so on. It was talking about the Battle of Shiloh and made Pittsburg Landing to be a city which doesn't exist. The map of the city was purely fictional. This after Grant turned the tide and won an epic victory there to....
 

NedBaldwin

Major
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Location
California
I'm gonna throw this out there because it happens so much, buuuut.....

Newspapers then and now are the absolute WORST authority on what was going on and really only good for someone to cherry pick the point they want to make. Back then as now they tended to have political agendas, and were pros at spreading misinformation, so its hard to say this is proof of Virginia plans. Especially since its the Richmond Examiner which had as many political agendas as any of Horace Greely's papers.
I think its proof of the agenda of the editor of the Richmond Enquirer

And I think much more reliable about the mood of the time than the political agenda of a slippery politician published decades after the war trying to justify what he had done as he was trying to become relevant again (see the swooning over what Zeb Vance would later claim he did)
 

Rusk County Avengers

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Guess there has been no swooning over Lincoln, Sherman or Grant?

Can the Northern Clingers to Yankee Myths give us a creditable source about the Lower South’s plans to invade the North? Long way from Alabama to Washington DC.

In the interest of fairness in this thread given the rise of sectional pride here among some, let us not forget there are just as many Southern Clingers to Rebel Myths is this world.

But thankfully no cross dressing Section 8 chasing Klingers around!:D
 

NedBaldwin

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California
Guess there has been no swooning over Lincoln, Sherman or Grant?

Can the Northern Clingers to Yankee Myths give us a creditable source about the Lower South’s plans to invade the North? Long way from Alabama to Washington DC.
Jefferson Davis...
"there will be no war in our territory; it will be carried into the enemy's territory" - February 1861
"Had the people of this state [Virginia] been as united as those of the cotton states we should have felt less embarrassment of imperfect preparation. Perhaps we might now have been contending for the bank of the Susquehanna instead of retiring from the Potomac. Troops are daily arriving from the South and I hope before long to be able to change from the defensive to an offensive attitude." - July 1861

Not so long from Alabama when you have a working railroad. April 22, 1861, Davis ordered over a dozen regiments to move from the deep south to Virginia, using the railway up through east Tennessee; by May 1, Edmund-Kirby Smith was in Lynchburg VA with orders to organize the regiments arriving from Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, and Arkansas.
 
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