Whew! I've got a few things to add here. I've been re-reading this thread and want to add my two Southern cents worth on some items that have been brought up. Ya'll might want to grab a cup of coffee, latte, or just bring out that big 'ol decanter of whatever floats your boat. Cigars may prove helpful too as well as some fine needlework for those ladies who don't step into the fray very often, but when they do, they come in with some very succinct rhetoric and totin' some "reaally" big guns.
First of all I would add that I think it's sad that suddenly the lines of courteous discourse have been dropped; name-calling ("Southern gentry"=
neo-confederate, pro CS, CS apologist ad nauseum, Davis=a bastard) has become old hat. I truly hated to see this day come. It means that we have lowered our standards and soon will reach the obvious object of desire: mediocrity, which can be found on many other boards on the internet. How sad.
And Neil, while I truly respect you as a debater, I cannot share your views that "eventually we get things right in America". By that I mean, yours is the winner mentality that still abounds about this war. I would hope that in the next 150 years, a more objective view will be taken and scholars will begin to truly question why more of an effort wasn't made to STOP this war before it began! And given that it started, questions should be raised about why it continued for so long. I am of the opinion that it was an ALL OR NOTHING situation on both sides, with Lincoln having the less to lose, since he had more expendable bodies to put in the field. The concept of the South wanting to form another nation won't be anathema in 150 years I bet. And I wish to God that I could be brought back from the dead long enough to read some really notable scholars on the subject at that time. (The idea of buying out the slave population was NEVER explored in depth, while every other nation in the world at that time had accomplished this without bloodshed. It's overlooked that the North was willing to slaughter every Southern man, woman and child to bring about this cathartic act for their banker friends, because that "ain't good PR." But here comes Lincoln,the North and their noble fight (actually a secondary bonus, but it looks good in print!) and we've got enough propaganda to choke every horse in both armies. Apologies to Dawna..)
While thinking of you Neil, I am perplexed with something you have said. You admonished me (and I took it rather meekly..<grin>) for speaking for the other Southerners on this board. But within days of this, Father Blue, you have decided it is within your scope to speak for those long ago revolutionaries:
"At the time before the Revolution, I assure you, most people in the colonies considered themselves Englishmen." Frankly, I feel the piety you assumed while on parochial duty at the reenactment has gone straight to your head. You blaspheme, sir, to speak, for those long dead souls! If the numbers of those in the colonies before the "Big R" were truly English in thought, word, and deed, we would still be part and parcel of Bill's realm. <grin>
Lastly, in trying to get this thread nearer the original intent, I ask that you read Jefferson Davis' Final Address to the Senate, Jan. 21, 1861:
http://www.wildwestweb.net/cwdocs/davisfarewell.html
"When Davis had finished, the applause in the galleries was so tumultous that the presiding officer shouted that the sergeant of arms would remove all disorderly persons. After quiet had been restored, a deep hush pervaded the Senate."
"The silence was finally broken by Lincoln's friend Trumbull, the Republican Senator from Illinois. He rose to attack Davis' speech, for he feared the effect its moving eloquence might have on his cohorts. He was contemptuous of any appeal to let the seceding states go in peace, and scornful of the idea of withdrawing the small Federal garrison from Sumter to prevent an overt clash."
"Then, said Davis in the last reply he was ever to make to an opponent in the United States Senate, "I have to say to the Senator, his ideas of honor and my own are very different; that I should hold the man to be a scoundrel who did not desire to have a garrison withdrawn, if he believed that garrison might produce bloodshed and could not do good."
The url posted above for Davis' 15,000 word Farewell speech is not a good one. I am still looking for the speech in its entirety.
(Message edited by thea_447 on February 18, 2005)