What happened to Abraham Lincoln's missing slavery speech?

5fish

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Aug 26, 2007
Location
Central Florida
So prove the people who offered up "snippets" are all co-conspirators in a political trick along with Herndon and others. Sigh. Just prove it.

It's called creating a bussss.... oral snippets only... keep the mystery going...

Look below they were trying to create a buss for thier new party... marketing and again no one wrote a word down... please!

Lincoln stressed were as follows:

1. That there were pressing reasons for the formation of the Republican Party.
2. That the Republican movement was very important to the future of the nation.
3. All free soil people needed to rally against slavery and the existing political evils.
4. The nation must be preserved in the purity of its principles as well as in the integrity of its territorial parts, and the Republicans were the ones to do it.
 

5fish

Captain
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Aug 26, 2007
Location
Central Florida
SPEECHES & LETTERS
of
ABRAHAM LINCOLN 1832-1865

EDITED BY MERWIN ROE
This speech has been called Lincoln's "Lost Speech," because all the reporters present were so carried away by his eloquence that they one and all forgot to take any notes. If it had not been for a young lawyer, a Mr. H.C. Whitney, who kept his head sufficiently to take notes, we would have no record of it. Mr. Whitney wrote out the speech for McClure's Magazine in 1896. It was submitted to several people who were present at the Bloomington Convention, and they said it was remarkably accurate considering that it was not taken down stenographically.

the book is here: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/14721

This is fake...

This speech has been called Lincoln's "Lost Speech," because all the reporters present were so carried away by his eloquence that they one and all forgot to take any notes. If it had not been for a young lawyer, a Mr. H.C. Whitney, who kept his head sufficiently to take notes, we would have no record of it. Mr. Whitney wrote out the speech for McClure's Magazine in 1896. It was submitted to several people who were present at the Bloomington Convention, and they said it was remarkably accurate considering that it was not taken down stenographically.
 

Burning Billy

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Joined
Jul 6, 2016
I get a kick out of you two... You two all indignant but offer no evidence to support your indignant attitude... I offer a common sense observation pointing out the story is most likely false or a ploy...

Where is your evidence that the speech did not happen? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Until you can find some, weary sighs are all your post warrants in reply.
 

Jimklag

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Location
Chicagoland
This is fake...

This speech has been called Lincoln's "Lost Speech," because all the reporters present were so carried away by his eloquence that they one and all forgot to take any notes. If it had not been for a young lawyer, a Mr. H.C. Whitney, who kept his head sufficiently to take notes, we would have no record of it. Mr. Whitney wrote out the speech for McClure's Magazine in 1896. It was submitted to several people who were present at the Bloomington Convention, and they said it was remarkably accurate considering that it was not taken down stenographically.
Prove it. Where is your evidence?
 

JAGwinn

Retired User
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Location
Bloomington, IL Corvette Gold
This is fake...

This speech has been called Lincoln's "Lost Speech," because all the reporters present were so carried away by his eloquence that they one and all forgot to take any notes. If it had not been for a young lawyer, a Mr. H.C. Whitney, who kept his head sufficiently to take notes, we would have no record of it. Mr. Whitney wrote out the speech for McClure's Magazine in 1896. It was submitted to several people who were present at the Bloomington Convention, and they said it was remarkably accurate considering that it was not taken down stenographically.

If you would be so kind as to offer up the truth then... I mean published, recognized genuine... something from the 1800's instead of the recent remade history indicated in your signature.
It has been 101 years since the book listed in my post was published; did no one scholar read it? did no group ban together to disprove or debunk it? Why was not this cleared away while still fresh those many generations past?
 

Jimklag

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Location
Chicagoland
This is fake...

This speech has been called Lincoln's "Lost Speech," because all the reporters present were so carried away by his eloquence that they one and all forgot to take any notes. If it had not been for a young lawyer, a Mr. H.C. Whitney, who kept his head sufficiently to take notes, we would have no record of it. Mr. Whitney wrote out the speech for McClure's Magazine in 1896. It was submitted to several people who were present at the Bloomington Convention, and they said it was remarkably accurate considering that it was not taken down stenographically.
Do you know how your theory sounds? You're saying a bunch of people got together in 1856 and pretended to listen to a speech by a guy who wasn't a candidate for any office and then decided to make up little snippets of the non-speech in order to pull a fast one on the public over a non-candidateam in a non-election. Is that about it? Like I said - aphasia of the keyboard.
 

5fish

Captain
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Location
Central Florida
Yes... this great speech in front of what 20 people... No, 20 people planning on how to promote their new party...

Where is your evidence that the speech did not happen? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I do not argue the speech happen I argue is no one could record some of it after it happens like the oral snippets they were telling everyone...

Prove it. Where is your evidence?

Did you all look up how big this convention was I will give you a list of delegates... It was small so maybe no reports were there. They were a new party... they needed marketing bussss ... My conspiracy carrying wait...

From Wiki:Bloomington Convention was a meeting held in Bloomington, Illinois, on May 29, 1856,
Lincoln delivered the closing address. The speech was purportedly so captivating that no reporter made a record of it.[1] The address has become known as Lincoln's Lost Speech. The delegates to the convention were:
Do you know how your theory sounds?

It sounds better than yours maybe 20 people in a room together could come up with a plan to give their new party some buss among the abolitionist ...

Is that about it? Like I said - aphasia of the keyboard.

I know your keyboard having aphasia issues after realizing you been conned by history...
 

wausaubob

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Joined
Apr 4, 2017
Location
Denver, CO
Do you know how your theory sounds? You're saying a bunch of people got together in 1856 and pretended to listen to a speech by a guy who wasn't a candidate for any office and then decided to make up little snippets of the non-speech in order to pull a fast one on the public over a non-candidateam in a non-election. Is that about it? Like I said - aphasia of the keyboard.
An ex-Congressman made a moving speech at what amounted to an executive session of a political party. He was practicing. Some of the lines probably made it into later speeches.
 

5fish

Captain
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Location
Central Florida
Your tune is right but the lyrics wrong...

Teaching, teaching, teaching, keep the truth rolling, history aside...
 
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WJC

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It is important to remember that Lincoln's antebellum speeches were made in a time when no one recorded a reliable transcript. Even in trials, Court Reporters were a rare, new feature. We have the speaker's written remarks to go on in some cases, in others just recollections written well after the fact. For some, such as the Lincoln-Douglas Debates, we have newspaper reports, often conflicting as to what was said because of inaccurate recording or even political agenda.
A famous example is Patrick Henry's "give me liberty or give me death" speech at the Second Virginia Convention on March 23, 1775. No one recorded the speech. It was not mentioned until sixty years afterward when it was published in William Wirt's biography of Henry. Yet many over the years have read it, even memorized every word accepting it as a verbatim account.
 

wbull1

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We might consider how careful Lincoln was in how his speeches were turned into newspaper articles. As Douglas L.Wilson wrote in Lincoln's Sword, the sixteenth president was well aware of the difference between hearing and reading a speech. He made very careful and extensive edits of his speeches before he gave them to editors to be published. The personal connection he made with crowds in person did not survive the transition to newsprint. Lincoln is, in my opinion, one of the greater writers of American English of all time. If he did not give an edited version of his speech to newspapers, and he did not, I think it is safe to assume he did not want a written version to be circulated. In front of a highly partisan group, he could give a speech not intended for the general public.

But it might have been made up. I mean, really. Maybe Lincoln is just a legend. How likely is that that someone born in abject poverty could teach himself grammar, geometry, surveying, and law to become a successful attorney? And then as a virtual unknown to defeat so many national figures and become the Republican nominee for president? And as unknown to win the presidency? Come on! What are the odds against that, I ask you?
 

WJC

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We might consider how careful Lincoln was in how his speeches were turned into newspaper articles. As Douglas L.Wilson wrote in Lincoln's Sword, the sixteenth president was well aware of the difference between hearing and reading a speech. He made very careful and extensive edits of his speeches before he gave them to editors to be published. The personal connection he made with crowds in person did not survive the transition to newsprint. Lincoln is, in my opinion, one of the greater writers of American English of all time. If he did not give an edited version of his speech to newspapers, and he did not, I think it is safe to assume he did not want a written version to be circulated. In front of a highly partisan group, he could give a speech not intended for the general public.

But it might have been made up. I mean, really. Maybe Lincoln is just a legend. How likely is that that someone born in abject poverty could teach himself grammar, geometry, surveying, and law to become a successful attorney? And then as a virtual unknown to defeat so many national figures and become the Republican nominee for president? And as unknown to win the presidency? Come on! What are the odds against that, I ask you?
Well said.
I will only add that for the speeches made in the seven famous Lincoln-Douglas Debates, there are two, competing and somewhat different newspaper records. Each suffers from the difficulties of attempting an accurate transcription in a noisy crowd, each reflects to some extent the political bias of the newspaper. In some cases, seeking accuracy, Lincoln found it necessary to correct some of the reported texts, even using the 'opposition' report to correct the 'friendly' report.
What we have is largely, but not totally accurate.
 

wbull1

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It's a bit off topic but as I mentioned on the Lincoln-Douglas debate: Another edition of the debates worth considering is the Knox College Lincoln Studies Center edition written in 2008
https://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-Doug...ords=Douglas+L+Wilson+Lincoln+Douglas+Debates

While the debates between Abraham Lincoln and Stephen A. Douglas are undoubtedly the most celebrated in American history, they may also be the most consequential as well. For the issues so fiercely debated in 1858 were about various interrelated aspects of one momentous, nation-threatening issue: slavery. The contest between Lincoln and Douglas became a testing ground for the viability of conflicting ideals in a nation deeply divided. One of the most colorful and engaging episodes in American history, this series of debates is of enduring interest as an illuminating instance of the ever-recurring dilemma of self-government: what happens when the guiding principle of democracy, "popular sovereignty," confronts a principled stand against a "moral, social, and political evil"? The tragic answer in this case came three years later: civil war.

Important as they are, the Lincoln-Douglas debates have long since ceased to be self-explanatory. This edition is the first to provide a text founded on all known records, rather than following one or another of the partisan and sometimes widely-varying newspaper accounts. Meticulously edited and annotated, it provides numerous aids to help the modern reader understand the debates, including extensive introductory material, commentary, and a glossary. The fullest and most dependable edition of the Lincoln-Douglas debates ever prepared, this edition brings readers as close as possible to the original words of these two remarkable men.
 

byron ed

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Location
Midwest
It's called creating a bussss....

Whatever points you're making, please try a little harder at spelling, starting with "poly" and "bussss." A slip of the keyboard once or even twice is understandable, but several times seems intentional.

You've probably been attempting to refer to political ploy and buzz.
 

5fish

Captain
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Location
Central Florida
Whatever points you're making, please try a little harder at spelling, starting with "poly" and "bussss." A slip of the keyboard once or even twice is understandable, but several times seems intentional.

You've probably been attempting to refer to political ploy and buzz.

I appreciate your concern with my big thumbs on my cell phone and its spell check...
 

5fish

Captain
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Location
Central Florida
Lincoln is, in my opinion, one of the greater writers of American English of all time.

I actually agree with this sentiment...

In front of a highly partisan group, he could give a speech not intended for the general public.

So he trashed Southerners, Democrats and called for War! He ends his speech---

"We won't go out of the Union and You sha'nt."

He was planning the war in 1856!!!!

Here is a two page summary of Lincoln's speech in Bloomington Convention 1856...

bloomingtonconve00cunn_0014.jpg



bloomingtonconve00cunn_0015.jpg
 
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