Featured What do you say was the end of the Civil War?

What do you say was the end of the Civil War?

  • In April 1865 when Lee and Johnston surrendered

    Votes: 28 29.5%
  • In June 1865 after surrender of Indian forces

    Votes: 29 30.5%
  • In August 1866 after Proclamation 157 by Pres Johnson that the insurrection had ended

    Votes: 10 10.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 28 29.5%

  • Total voters
    95

DRW

Sergeant
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Location
New York
For the sake of debate, I'll offer the date the South won the war: March 5, 1877. Rutherford B. Hayes' inauguration implemented the political deal that ended congressional interference and military occupation in the South and handed over the keys to the South to white Democrats (i.e., former Confederates). This deal lasted 90 years.
 

godofredus

Sergeant Major
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Location
Chicago
Having posted the original "end" as LBJ signing the Civil Rights Act in 1964, and agreeing with DRW's post:For the sake of debate, I'll offer the date the South won the war: March 5, 1877. Rutherford B. Hayes' inauguration implemented the political deal that ended congressional interference and military occupation in the South and handed over the keys to the South to white Democrats (i.e., former Confederates)......

I couldn't disagree more with the "centralization vs decentralization" argument that it is shared by all polities. Only in the US is centralization vs decentralization tied to civil rights - ie voting. Centralization is valid in a state if it wants to suppress (control, restrict, limit, pick a word) voting despite what local authorities might want to do.

This might be presentism, but if the War of the Rebellion was fought over slavery, the old Confederacy plus a few border states re-established some version of forced labor and limited civil rights as soon as possible after the war was over.

Otherwise, I could go with the capture and imprisonment of Jefferson Davis. I note he refused to take the oath to the United States, even tho his brother did. From his point of view, the CSA still existed as long as he was alive.
 

JohnnyClair

Private
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Location
Georgia
Especially since it was not an issue fought over in the Civil War.
It most certainly WAS THE CENTRAL issue that most our Southern boys were fighting and dying for. The Federal/Executive branch of Government was overstepping its boundaries at that time and hungry for more power OVER each individual State, as history has clearly shown and documented.
But that's a horse of a different color on this thread...
 

Blessmag

Captain
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Location
Minnesota
Depends on who is asking. For a casual inquiry, April 1865. Stating that I mean the casual person would only focus on Lee's surrender.

This community? As you can see, there are many answers including LBJ. But for those who kept their C.S.A. currency, the south will rise again.

One could say the war has shifted theaters when we talk red vs. blue states or east coast/west coast vs. fly over country.

As far as preserving the southern society, didn't we have a thread of the community who moved to Brazil to keep it alive??
 

shanniereb

Sergeant Major
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Location
Mt. Croghan South Carolina
Hey, I think I just received that bulletin the other day. I actually had to go and surrender my flag! Oh, wait that was in my other life! Hee Hee! No, I would have to go when the two main armies surrendered. I believe that is what most Southerners would say. :roflmao:
 

cash

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Right here.
It most certainly WAS THE CENTRAL issue that most our Southern boys were fighting and dying for. The Federal/Executive branch of Government was overstepping its boundaries at that time and hungry for more power OVER each individual State, as history has clearly shown and documented.
But that's a horse of a different color on this thread...

Nobody who knows anything about the Civil War believes that baloney. I suggest reading what they wrote and said at the time. Nobody said anything like that at the time. That was something made up later to fool people who don't study history.
 

NFB22

Sergeant Major
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Location
Louisville, KY
I would say when Smith & Watie surrendered it was "over" so June was pretty much it.

You could argue the CSS Shenandoah but to me that would be like counting the individual and small pockets of Japanese soldiers that held out all over the Pacific years after Japan formally surrendered.

(A small fact to go along with that comment: A company I served with in the Marines had the unfortunate label as having the last man killed by the enemy in WWII. He was shot and killed by a sniper in December of 1945.)
 

JPK Huson 1863

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Location
Central Pennsylvania
I'm guessing Lee's surrender was so profound, to this day there's just no point in trying to convince even a 5 year old the war would have gone on without him. Maybe it's not a horrible thing to have what sounds like the wrong official date in the kids' books in school- most at least remember who was there and what happened and why, bet they wouldn't if Lee was not a central figure ( North or South ).

Thanks for the thread, had no idea so many dates were involved. Now I do.
 

Mark F. Jenkins

Colonel
Member of the Year
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Location
Central Ohio
I couldn't disagree more with the "centralization vs decentralization" argument that it is shared by all polities. Only in the US is centralization vs decentralization tied to civil rights - ie voting. Centralization is valid in a state if it wants to suppress (control, restrict, limit, pick a word) voting despite what local authorities might want to do.

I disagree. The ways the centrifugal forces and centripedal forces are expressed are different in voting societies than in non-voting societies, but the inherent tensions are still present.
 

Carronade

Captain
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Location
Pennsylvania
It's over? :sneaky:

From a military point of view, I'll take August 2, 1865, when CSS Shenandoah received confirmation from the British bark Barracouta that the war was over; she struck her battery below and ceased offensive operations. Although it was in large part due to the slow speed of communications, it was a long-standing principle that wars ended when the news of the end reached the fighting units (the classic example being the Battle of New Orleans in 1815), and up to that moment, the Shenandoah was still an active fighting unit operating under orders.

Good point. Shenandoah ceased hostilities on August 2 even if her captain did not wish to formally surrender to US authorities. She would not have engaged an American ship if she had encountered one during the voyage to England.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lee

Mark F. Jenkins

Colonel
Member of the Year
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Location
Central Ohio
She would not have engaged an American ship if she had encountered one during the voyage to England.

Yup... in fact, Waddell went out of his way (way out of his way) to avoid such an encounter. He managed a marvelous feat of navigation in doing so-- I can't remember if they sighted land off Cape Horn or not, but I think he managed to go from the North Pacific to England staying almost completely out of sight of land, which while not completely unprecedented was still extremely difficult; but he managed it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lee

Rio Bravo

First Sergeant
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Location
Suffolk, U.K.
I'm going for June 23rd ( my birthday!) 1865 when Brig.Gen. Stand Watie's Native Americans, being the last significant Confederate land force, surrenders at Doaksville near Fort Towson in Indian Territory.
In July, Gen. Jo Shelby did lead several hundred Confederates to the Rio Grande & Mexico.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lee

Carronade

Captain
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Location
Pennsylvania
I'm going for June 23rd ( my birthday!) 1865 when Brig.Gen. Stand Watie's Native Americans, being the last significant Confederate land force, surrenders at Doaksville near Fort Towson in Indian Territory.
In July, Gen. Jo Shelby did lead several hundred Confederates to the Rio Grande & Mexico.

One thing I'm curious about - wasn't Watie's command part of the Trans-Mississippi? Should he not have been included in Kirby Smith's surrender? Did it just take that long for the word to get to him?
 

Rio Bravo

First Sergeant
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Location
Suffolk, U.K.
One thing I'm curious about - wasn't Watie's command part of the Trans-Mississippi? Should he not have been included in Kirby Smith's surrender? Did it just take that long for the word to get to him?
I am not 100% sure about that but I have always considered him to be the most Successful Field Commander in the Trans-Mississippi West !
 

John Winn

Major
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Location
State of Jefferson
One thing I'm curious about - wasn't Watie's command part of the Trans-Mississippi? Should he not have been included in Kirby Smith's surrender? Did it just take that long for the word to get to him?

Technically I'd say no. His band of Cherokee were allies to the Confederacy and mostly fought in Indian territory. They were not citizens of the United States or of the Confederacy. Thus, his surrender was a separate thing.
 

Suki

Cadet
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Location
New York State, USA
I say the combat ended in November 1865 when the Confederate CSS Shenandoah surrendered in England. The war all together ceased when President Johnson declared so on August 20, 1866.

Just my perspective, though.
 
Top