What Did the North and South Have in Common from 1850-1860?

Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
813
#1
Fellow Posters,

I weary of reading about all the cultural conflict and differences between the North and the South during this period with virtually no mention, let alone emphasis, upon what the sections had in common. I wonder if some of you might think with me along these lines and share your thoughts with me. In thinking of a divorce in marriage that I know about, one spouse, having determined upon a course of action, could find absolutely no good or common ground with her mate because to do so might have halted her pre-determined course of action. In short, the spouse in question was far from objectivity and balance. Her course of action dictated what she had to pile up as negative excuses about her mate for justifying her pre-determined conduct. And so I am wondering just how many things the North and South had IN COMMON that the South, especially South Carolina, ignored in the ultimate crafting of Secession Declarations. E.g., in the Declarations I find NO MENTION of the $10 million subsidy given to the South by Congress in 1853. Simple question: What other good and common things did these Sections enjoy but that the Seceshers ignored? For the sake of discussion feel free to widen the time period from 1850-186 to 1845-1861.

James
 

(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
5,999
Location
Minnesota
#5
"White settlers continued to flood into Indian country. As the population increased, the homesteaders could petition Congress for creation of a territory. This would initiate an Organic Act which established a three-part territorial government. The governor and judiciary were appointed by the President of the United States, while the legislature was elected by citizens residing in the territory. One elected representative was allowed a seat in the U. S. House of Representatives. The federal government took responsibility for territorial affairs. Later, the inhabitants of the territory could apply for admission as a full state. No such action was taken for the so-called Indian Territory, so that area was not treated as a legal territory.[5]
olton_Map_of_Kansas_and_Nebraska_%28first_edition%29_-_Geographicus_-_NebraskaKansas-colton-1855.jpg

Kansas, Nebraska, Minnesota Territories 1855
The reduction of the land area of Indian Territory (or Indian Country, as defined in the Indian Intercourse Act of 1834), the successor of Missouri Territory began almost immediately after its creation with:
  • Wisconsin Territory formed in 1836 from lands east of the Mississippi and between the Mississippi and Missouri rivers. Wisconsin became a state in 1848
    • Iowa Territory (land between the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers) was split from Wisconsin Territory in 1838 and became a state in 1846.
      • Minnesota Territory was split from Iowa Territory in 1849 and part of the Minnesota Territory became the state of Minnesota in 1858
  • Dakota Territory was organized in 1861 from the northern part of Indian Country and Minnesota Territory. The name refers to the Dakota branch of the Sioux tribes.
Indian Country was reduced to the approximate boundaries of the current state of Oklahoma by the Kansas–Nebraska Act of 1854, which created Kansas Territory and Nebraska Territory"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Territory
 
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
5,999
Location
Minnesota
#6
"The Panic of 1857 was a financial panic in the United States caused by the declining international economy and over-expansion of the domestic economy. Because of the interconnectedness of the world economy by the 1850s, the financial crisis that began in late 1857 was the first worldwide economic crisis ...

By the spring of 1858, "commercial credit had dried up, forcing already debt-ridden merchants of the West to curtail new purchases of inventory"; as a result of limited purchasing in the west, merchants around the country began to see decreases in sales and profits.[6] The railroads "had created an interdependent national economy, and now an economic downturn in the West threatened ... [an] economic crisis".[6] Since many banks had financed the railroads and land purchases, they began to feel the pressures of the falling value of railroad securities. The Illinois Central; Erie; Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago; and Reading Railroad lines were all forced to shut down owing to the financial downturn. The Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad and the Fond du Lac Railroad companies were forced to declare bankruptcy.[16] The Boston and Worcester Railroad Company also experienced heavy financial difficulties. The employees were informed, in a memo written in late October 1857, "the receipts from Passengers and Freight have fallen off during [the] last month (as compared with the corresponding month of last year), over twenty thousand dollars, with very little prospect of any improvement during the coming winter."[17] The company also announced that their workers would receive a "reduction in ... pay of ten percent".[18] In addition to the decreasing value of railroad securities, farmers began to default on payments on their mortgaged lands in the west, which put more financial pressure on banks.[16]
The prices of grain also decreased significantly, and farmers experienced a loss in revenue, causing banks to foreclose on recently purchased lands. Grain prices in 1855 had skyrocketed to $2.19 a bushel, and farmers began to purchase land to increase their crop supply, which in turn would increase their profits. However, by 1858, grain prices dropped severely to $0.80 a bushel.[19] Many Midwest towns felt the pressures of the Panic. For example, the town of Keokuk, Iowa experienced financial strife due to the economic downturns of 1857.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1857
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
813
#7
"White settlers continued to flood into Indian country. As the population increased, the homesteaders could petition Congress for creation of a territory. This would initiate an Organic Act which established a three-part territorial government. The governor and judiciary were appointed by the President of the United States, while the legislature was elected by citizens residing in the territory. One elected representative was allowed a seat in the U. S. House of Representatives. The federal government took responsibility for territorial affairs. Later, the inhabitants of the territory could apply for admission as a full state. No such action was taken for the so-called Indian Territory, so that area was not treated as a legal territory.[5]
View attachment 218431
Kansas, Nebraska, Minnesota Territories 1855
The reduction of the land area of Indian Territory (or Indian Country, as defined in the Indian Intercourse Act of 1834), the successor of Missouri Territory began almost immediately after its creation with:
  • Wisconsin Territory formed in 1836 from lands east of the Mississippi and between the Mississippi and Missouri rivers. Wisconsin became a state in 1848
    • Iowa Territory (land between the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers) was split from Wisconsin Territory in 1838 and became a state in 1846.
      • Minnesota Territory was split from Iowa Territory in 1849 and part of the Minnesota Territory became the state of Minnesota in 1858
  • Dakota Territory was organized in 1861 from the northern part of Indian Country and Minnesota Territory. The name refers to the Dakota branch of the Sioux tribes.
Indian Country was reduced to the approximate boundaries of the current state of Oklahoma by the Kansas–Nebraska Act of 1854, which created Kansas Territory and Nebraska Territory"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Territory
So, would one answer to my question be this: "The North and South held some territories together as partners"?
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
813
#8
"The Panic of 1857 was a financial panic in the United States caused by the declining international economy and over-expansion of the domestic economy. Because of the interconnectedness of the world economy by the 1850s, the financial crisis that began in late 1857 was the first worldwide economic crisis ...

By the spring of 1858, "commercial credit had dried up, forcing already debt-ridden merchants of the West to curtail new purchases of inventory"; as a result of limited purchasing in the west, merchants around the country began to see decreases in sales and profits.[6] The railroads "had created an interdependent national economy, and now an economic downturn in the West threatened ... [an] economic crisis".[6] Since many banks had financed the railroads and land purchases, they began to feel the pressures of the falling value of railroad securities. The Illinois Central; Erie; Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago; and Reading Railroad lines were all forced to shut down owing to the financial downturn. The Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad and the Fond du Lac Railroad companies were forced to declare bankruptcy.[16] The Boston and Worcester Railroad Company also experienced heavy financial difficulties. The employees were informed, in a memo written in late October 1857, "the receipts from Passengers and Freight have fallen off during [the] last month (as compared with the corresponding month of last year), over twenty thousand dollars, with very little prospect of any improvement during the coming winter."[17] The company also announced that their workers would receive a "reduction in ... pay of ten percent".[18] In addition to the decreasing value of railroad securities, farmers began to default on payments on their mortgaged lands in the west, which put more financial pressure on banks.[16]
The prices of grain also decreased significantly, and farmers experienced a loss in revenue, causing banks to foreclose on recently purchased lands. Grain prices in 1855 had skyrocketed to $2.19 a bushel, and farmers began to purchase land to increase their crop supply, which in turn would increase their profits. However, by 1858, grain prices dropped severely to $0.80 a bushel.[19] Many Midwest towns felt the pressures of the Panic. For example, the town of Keokuk, Iowa experienced financial strife due to the economic downturns of 1857.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1857
And so this reduces to what short phrase to capture what the North and South had in common?
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
813
#13
Language
Dominant Protestant Christianity
Tradition of republican Constitutional governance
Pride in common Revolutionary Era heritage
Nationality
Union
Convictions of white superiority

Great. Keep going. Especially in light of the fact that they first met in the First Baptist Church of Columbia. More about that later.

Great quote about magic!
 

TnFed

Corporal
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
405
#16
I would say that dirt farmers in Ohio and Tennessee had a lot in common. English language, about The same religious beliefs, same system of law, based more or less on English common law. Read the same books, same cultural values. Not that bound to a class system like that in the deep South and New England, etc.
 

Malingerer

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
2,526
Location
Cullowhee, NC
#17
Our revolutionary heritage - all 13 colonies fought equally hard (for eight years mind you) for our independence from Great Britain. Subsequent generations venerated George Washington in ways that are, for many folks today, difficult to fathom - as an example, my elementary school had portraits of Washington in every classroom.
 

USS ALASKA

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Messages
3,086
#19
A common European lineage - especially Northern Euro and to narrow it down a little more, Anglo-Saxon.

A common personality trait of adventurism. You were either 'of status' and coming to the New World in search of wealth and position or you weren't and felt you had nothing to lose (and much to gain) by leaving that which you were most familiar with, risking your life during an uncertain ocean voyage, coming to a new land you knew nothing about, (and perhaps didn't even speak the predominant language), to make a new life for yourself and your family. How many of us would do that today?

A certain country use to teach that that is why they found the American Government so difficult to deal with - we are a people who descended from mavericks that left everything they held dear and accustomed to for an unknown chance of hope...or die trying.

To quote Bill Murray in 'Stripes' "Cut it out! Cut it out! Cut it out! The Edited. 's the matter with you? Stupid! We're all very different people. We're not Watusi. We're not Spartans. We're Americans, with a capital 'A', huh? You know what that means? Do ya? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We're the underdog. We're mutts! Here's proof: his nose is cold! But there's no animal that's more faithful, that's more loyal, more loveable than the mutt. Who saw "Old Yeller?" Who cried when Old Yeller got shot at the end?"

Probably more philosophical vs empirical than you were looking for...
125

Cheers,
USS ALASKA
 

USS ALASKA

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Messages
3,086
#20
@John Hartwell wrote...
Language - English for the most part but those that didn't tried to, and their children took to it easier than the adults...as usual
Dominant Protestant Christianity - Judeo / Christian based belief systems. And some very seriously powerful hierarchically organized systems at that.
Tradition of republican Constitutional governance - with a working and agreed upon Constitution
Pride in common Revolutionary Era heritage - and a belief that Victory in that Revolution was God's blessing of rightness
Nationality
Union
Convictions of white superiority
- and it's little brother of Manifest Destiny

Cheers,
USS ALASKA
 
Last edited:



(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)
Top