Were Southern whites disfranchised during Reconstruction?

unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Member of the Year
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
So, you are both of the opinion the losing side should suffer no consequences for their actions?
No consequences? Didn't they already have property confiscated and their towns and homes burned to the ground?

What's the motive to inflict more? Vindictiveness?

They freely chose to employ violence and revolution in a hope to force the rest of the nation to bend to their will.

They rolled the dice and came up snake eyes (Lincoln and Grant) and then had to pay for their arrogance.

They got off easy.
 

19thGeorgia

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
So, you are both of the opinion the losing side should suffer no consequences for their actions?

No consequences? Didn't they already have property confiscated and their towns and homes burned to the ground?

...along with over 300,000 dead.

They freely chose to employ violence and revolution in a hope to force the rest of the nation to bend to their will.

They rolled the dice and came up snake eyes (Lincoln and Grant) and then had to pay for their arrogance.

They got off easy.

So in your view it was not enough.

***

Union Death Squads in Middle Tennessee:

"...execution without trial had become commonplace in occupied Middle Tennessee. Not content with capturing and defeating various bushwhacker gangs, [General] Milroy still felt that the civilian base of support for such bands needed to be destroyed. He believed that his policy of 'fire and blood' was the best way to accomplish such a task. Milroy found allies among those individuals who had been affected by Hood's return to Tennessee in November and December 1864.

Moses Pitman was one of the pro-Union men who had been attacked by guerillas during the absence of Union troops from Tullahoma. His list of stolen and lost goods included several weapons, horses, and household goods. Pitman provided Milroy with a list of goods for which he was seeking restitution as well as a list of his neighbors who he felt deserved punishment for 'disloyal' actions.

Names of some disloyal citizens of the Fourth district Franklin County Tenn.
A narration of their crimes and the orders of Maj. Gen'l Milroy as to what
punishment they shall suffer for said crimes....

Joel Cunningham- He is a leader of a gang of bushwhackers 75 to 100 strong.
[Milroy's instructions:] Kill

Wesley Davis- Harbors bushwhackers.
Clean out [-confiscate property that can be removed and burn the rest]

Green Denison- A bushwhacker with Hays.
Kill

Jane Lipscum- A widow. Harbors bushwhackers.
Clean out

Curtis McCullum- Harbors bushwhackers and instigated his son and three others to murder in cold blood a Union man named Samuel Kennedy on Oct 15, 1864....
Hang and burn

Cynthia McCullum- Wife of the above and also instigated her son to murder Kennedy, the same remarks that apply to her husband apply also to her with double force. She is a very bad and a very dangerous woman.
Shoot if you can make it look an accident

Charlotte McCullum- An unmarried sister of the above and is almost as bad as her mother.

Burn everything

The list goes on for a total of 58 names....

Leroy Moore, Thomas Saunders, and William Saunders were three of the men that had been ordered to be executed...Leroy Moore was described as 'an old, white haired man' while Thomas Saunders was 'over 50 years of age,' and William Saunders was only 14. When the detail from the 42nd Missouri reached the Saunders house Moore was found to be visiting them. All three had their hands tied behind their backs and were forced to wade into a mill pond at Huffers Mill. They were then shot in the back and their corpses were guarded for three days before the families were allowed to remove them from the water. The method of their execution was the same as that styled 'barbaric' by General Slocum and General Thomas when three of their men were murdered at Mulberry in 1863. The three are still buried on the banks of the mill pond." -With Blood and Fire, pp. 115-117, 120
 
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unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Member of the Year
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
No consequences? Didn't they already have property confiscated and their towns and homes burned to the ground?

...along with over 300,000 dead.



So in your view it was not enough.

***

Union Death Squads in Middle Tennessee:

"...execution without trial had become commonplace in occupied Middle Tennessee. Not content with capturing and defeating various bushwhacker gangs, [General] Milroy still felt that the civilian base of support for such bands needed to be destroyed. He believed that his policy of 'fire and blood' was the best way to accomplish such a task. Milroy found allies among those individuals who had been affected by Hood's return to Tennessee in November and December 1864.

Moses Pitman was one of the pro-Union men who had been attacked by guerillas during the absence of Union troops from Tullahoma. His list of stolen and lost goods included several weapons, horses, and household goods. Pitman provided Milroy with a list of goods for which he was seeking restitution as well as a list of his neighbors who he felt deserved punishment for 'disloyal' actions.

Names of some disloyal citizens of the Fourth district Franklin County Tenn.
A narration of their crimes and the orders of Maj. Gen'l Milroy as to what
punishment they shall suffer for said crimes....

Joel Cunningham- He is a leader of a gang of bushwhackers 75 to 100 strong.
[Milroy's instructions:] Kill

Wesley Davis- Harbors bushwhackers.
Clean out [-confiscate property that can be removed and burn the rest]

Green Denison- A bushwhacker with Hays.
Kill

Jane Lipscum- A widow. Harbors bushwhackers.
Clean out

Curtis McCullum- Harbors bushwhackers and instigated his son and three others to murder in cold blood a Union man named Samuel Kennedy on Oct 15, 1864....
Hang and burn

Cynthia McCullum- Wife of the above and also instigated her son to murder Kennedy, the same remarks that apply to her husband apply also to her with double force. She is a very bad and a very dangerous woman.
Shoot if you can make it look an accident

Charlotte McCullum- An unmarried sister of the above and is almost as bad as her mother.

Burn everything

The list goes on for a total of 58 names....

Leroy Moore, Thomas Saunders, and William Saunders were three of the men that had been ordered to be executed...Leroy Moore was described as 'an old, white haired man' while Thomas Saunders was 'over 50 years of age,' and William Saunders was only 14. When the detail from the 42nd Missouri reached the Saunders house Moore was found to be visiting them. All three had their hands tied behind their backs and were forced to wade into a mill pond at Huffers Mill. They were then shot in the back and their corpses were guarded for three days before the families were allowed to remove them from the water. The method of their execution was the same as that styled 'barbaric' by General Slocum and General Thomas when three of their men were murdered at Mulberry in 1863. The three are still buried on the banks of the mill pond." -With Blood and Fire, pp. 115-117, 120

In my view, which you should not misrepresent, is that the slaveholding South got off easy after the war.

It could have been very much worse, even with the above examples.

Though, in my own view, the only way it could have got even worse is, if the Confederacy had won.
 

Horrido67

Private
Joined
Sep 29, 2019
If you believe that any state outside the Confederacy was not predominantly racist in the 19th and early 20th century, you may wish to consider the anti-Asian bias in California notwithstanding that the targeted race was never more than 10% of the state's population.

Consider, for example, that the state did not approve the Fifteenth Amendment providing blacks the right to vote until 1962, almost a century after it was ratified. Similarly, California did not approve the Fourteenth Amendment until 1959, also a century late.

California’s Fourteenth-Amendment-approval-delay reveals the state’s most blatant historical racism, which was chiefly against Asians. Blacks represented less than 1% of the state’s population until 1910 and did not exceed 2% until World War II. In contrast, when the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted in 1868, Chinese-Americans composed 9% of the state’s population. Californians particularly objected to the Amendment’s provision granting citizenship to anyone born in the USA because they did not want Asians to have a right to vote, which the state would be hard pressed to deny if they were citizens. Notwithstanding that Chinese-Americans never composed more than 10% of the state’s population, Californians successfully lobbied for Federal laws to negate the Amendment’s birthright citizenship as it would apply to such Asians.

First, the language of the 1870 Naturalization Act did not allow Chinese-Americans to become naturalized citizens. It was instead targeted at blacks because they composed the solitary racial minority that would reliably vote Republican. Chinese residents could not become naturalized citizens until 1943.

Second, with few exceptions the 1875 Page Act did not allow Chinese women to immigrate into America. The reason was to prevent American Chinese residents from having children because 95% of them were males who were not allowed to marry whites.

Third, between 1882 and 1904 a series of Chinese Exclusion Acts blocked Chinese immigrants of both sexes.

Fourth, President Theodore Roosevelt’s administration blocked most immigration from Japan. In 1907 it negotiated a “Gentleman’s Agreement” stipulating that Japan would not issue passports to Japanese workers seeking to enter the continental United States.

As a result of the preceding acts and agreements, the percent of California’s population that was Chinese-America dropped from 9% in 1860 to 4% in 1900 and 2% in 1940. Almost none of them could vote until World War II. Californians also often suppressed Chinese-Americans with many acts of violence, particularly in the nineteenth century. They composed two thirds of California’s lynch victims between 1849 and 1902. In fact, America’s single biggest lynching happened in Los Angeles in 1871 when seventeen Chinese-Americans were killed including one woman.

Prior to the above occurrences Californians had long discriminated against Chinese-Americans with restrictive conduct codes similar to the so-called black codes that some Southern states attempted, but failed, to implement after Appomattox. In order to discourage non-white gold prospectors, for example, California imposed a steep monthly Foreign Miners Tax on Chinese-Americans. For almost 100 years after 1850 the state had laws on the books banning inter-racial marriage.

I am not sure if this kind of "You too" fallacy somehow vindicates White Southerners' subjugation and disfrenchisement of African American who were actual citizens of United States.
 

Rhea Cole

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Location
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
This weekend the originals of Tennessee’s three constitutions are on display. The constitution was amended to disenfranchise anyone who had served the Confederacy for five years & to enfranchise men of African descent. In 1870, the present constitution opened the franchise to all males of voting age. It is a rare occasion, the original documents are normally not on public display.
 

uaskme

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Location
SE Tennessee
How does ANY of what you state in the above posts equate with a rebellion that ignored a legal and fair election, then attempted to steal every bit of property and funds of the entire US to fund and arm that rebellion, ALL in the defense of maintaining and expanding human slavery, with the slap on the wrist of a number of southern whites being disfranchised for a period of time?
Glad you Finally recognize that Southern Whites were disenfranchised.

Northerners Bitterly Cling to their Myths.
 

uaskme

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Location
SE Tennessee
This weekend the originals of Tennessee’s three constitutions are on display. The constitution was amended to disenfranchise anyone who had served the Confederacy for five years & to enfranchise men of African descent. In 1870, the present constitution opened the franchise to all males of voting age. It is a rare occasion, the original documents are normally not on public display.
Do they explain how Brownlow destroyed ballot boxes so he could manipulate the Vote to get his desired result? If the result didn’t reflect the Radical Republican win, he simply called the Vote fraudulent and removed enough ballot boxes to validate His desired result. Another way Tennessee disenfranchised conservative White Voters who didn’t Vote Republican.
 
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