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Were Blacks living in the CSA 'Confederates'?

Discussion in 'Civil War History - General Discussion' started by WJC, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. WJC

    WJC Moderator Moderator

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    This thread will consider whether Blacks living in the Confederate States of America were considered 'Confederates'.
     

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  3. Tin cup

    Tin cup 1st Lieutenant

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    What made any of the blacks in the ranks "Confederate"????? They were not citizens, equal with the white's, that I know of, or by any Confederate law.

    Kevin Dally
     
  4. uaskme

    uaskme Sergeant

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    Neither were Yankee Free Blacks or Southern Slaves who fought for the North, equal or accepted.

    The North Excluded Southern Blacks from going North. First with their Colonization Plan. Next with General Thomas’s Plan of keeping Blacks growing Yankee Cotton, building Military Infrustructure and Arming them to fight their War, all in the South. Freedmans Bureau had the explicit purpose to keep Blacks in the South. And Finally Northerners thought their Cold Climate and admittedly more severe Racial Attitudes would make Northern Emigration not tolerable. And if all that failed, they could just turn the Irish loose on them.
     
  5. RobertP

    RobertP Major

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    I’m not a believer of Black Confederates in any large numbers. But I will say this: You need to choose a rationale other than non-citizenship for dismissing them. They were also classified as non-citizens of the United States and would remain in that status until the 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868.
     
  6. Tin cup

    Tin cup 1st Lieutenant

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    Again someone EVADES my point about CONFEDERATE LAW, and the Confederacy, concerning references to blacks/slaves in the ranks, that made them "Confederate"? Why does it seem to be a MODERN interpretation, I don't see it in the OR's, Diaries written during the war...
    Here is my original question:
    "What made any of the blacks in the ranks "Confederate"????? They were not citizens, equal with the white's, that I know of, or by any Confederate law."

    Kevin Dally
     
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  7. Rebforever

    Rebforever Major

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    Anyone living in any of the secession States, which is the Confederate States, would be a Confederate. :confused:
     
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  8. WJC

    WJC Moderator Moderator

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    Would you characterize Unionists living in any of the so-called 'Confederate States' as Confederates?
     
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  9. Tin cup

    Tin cup 1st Lieutenant

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    Would PROPERTY be "Confederate"? That is exactly what a SLAVE was, NOTHING more in their eyes back then!
    Your MODERN DAY interpretation is noted!

    Kevin Dally
     
  10. E_just_E

    E_just_E Moderator Moderator

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    I suspect that Confederate property would be... Confederate, no?
     
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  11. Youngblood

    Youngblood Sergeant

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    Well there were confederate horses huh.
     
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  12. Rebforever

    Rebforever Major

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    Confederate American would be better.
     
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  13. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l Member of the Year

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    This would have come as a real shock to the nearly 450,000 men who were southerners and served in the Union army, not counting all of the secret organizations in every Confederate state who were actively disloyal to the Confederacy.

    And let's not forget the at least the records of at least 4,000 southern political prisoners held by the Confederacy in it's short lifetime.

    "Anyone living in the secession/Confederate States, would be a Confederate?"

    HARDLY.

    Unionblue
     
  14. WJC

    WJC Moderator Moderator

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    It seems that many here agree with your point of view. Few thus far, however, have been able to produce examples where the law confirms your point; fewer still that it contradicts your point.
     
  15. uaskme

    uaskme Sergeant

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    Blacks who picked up a Gun, cooked, drove wagons, were musicians, built Military Infrastructure aided the Confederate Army. Whether they were coerced or not. Whites were coerced into the Military. NBF raised a couple of Calvary Units coercing men he found wondering around. He also offered freedom to his Slaves who fought.


    Sherman arrested hundreds of Women who were trying to make their Bread, working in a textile mill for Treason. Surely he thought they were Confederates. Did he ask them if they were Secessionist? I doubt it. Sherman attacked the whole Civilian Populations of the South, destroying anything of Value. Because it aided the Confederates. Did he ask the Mill Owner if he was a Secessionist? Never heard of it.

    Lincoln issued the imaginary EP so as to take away Slave Labor from the Confederates. He recognized Slaves were a huge asset to the Confederate Cause. Did he care if they were Secessionist? Don’t think he cared.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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  16. Tin cup

    Tin cup 1st Lieutenant

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    "Imaginary EP", you are kidding, right?

    Simply show me where all these people in the South in 1861-65 called any slaves/black in the ranks, "Black Confederates". Seems to be a mostly MODERN term, trying to change the status, blacks/slaves actually had!

    Kevin Dally
     
  17. Andersonh1

    Andersonh1 1st Lieutenant

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    As usual, the free black population of the south and the greater range of choices available to them is entirely ignored here. Yes, they were a small percentage of the overall number of people in the Confederate States, and they were not socially equal to the white population, but the idea that every black person in the South was a slave and therefore property is inaccurate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  18. uaskme

    uaskme Sergeant

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    The discussion that you pealed off was whether Confederate meant Soldier. I said I didn’t see Soldier in the Term Black Confederate. There was agreement with that. The passed arguments have been whether there were Black Soldiers in the CSA.

    Due to the Dred Scott Decision no Blacks were considered as Citizens during this period. They legally got that Right with the 14th A. Part of my argument was that the Yankees never intended for them to be a part of Yankee Society and that even Northern Free Blacks were mostly Excluded. Most Yankees, Northeners or whatever you wanted to call them hope that ending Slavery would allow their Blacks to return to the South, their Natural Condition.
     
  19. Northern Light

    Northern Light Major

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    Except those who were Unionists, like John Minor Botts, who might have had something to say to you if you called him a Confederate.
     
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  20. Northern Light

    Northern Light Major

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    What does that mean? Their Natural Condition might be construed as being back in Africa, or as slaves. What do you consider their "Natural Condition". I am not trying to be confrontational, I merely want to be sure I know what you are meaning. Thanks.
     
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  21. leftyhunter

    leftyhunter Lt. Colonel

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    Not true some Northern states gave blacks full citizenship rights.
    Leftyhunter
     

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