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There could have been a 3rd shooter as you say----But, and someone who may know please correct, do not smoothbores fire what is known as buck and ball which is three rounds in one---like a shotgun. Not as accurate as an Enfield but bad news at close range. A N.C. unit used them at Sharpsburg at the sunken road with great effect. If they used buck and ball the two shooters could have hit Jackson with three balls.

I did not know that info about the weapons, thanks. Another fact that I found interesting and you may also is that Gen Jackson, by most accounts had 8 or 9 men with him at the time he was shot. His group was on what was called 'Mountain Trail' which ran parallel to Plank Road. Gen Hill and his group of 9 or 10 were on Plank Road. Gen Jackson had turned around and was heading back west toward the NC 18th lines when the volley was fired. He and his party were further out from his line than Gen Hill. A total of 5 rounds struck men in the Jackson group. Of the 5 'hits' , 3 were on Gen Jackson.
 
Didn't 5 horses die as well? That little CSpan piece I put up - Krick says one of the 18th's soldiers said he saw A P Hill just as clear as day, the flash from the volley lit up everything. He said he had his hands up yelling we're friends! Hill saved himself by falling off his horse and laying flat on his face in the dirt. Jackson didn't have time to do that - Little Sorrel was a Unionist at heart and took off with him toward the Union lines! That would have been some delivery... But Jackson somehow got him turned around and finally stopped. "Wild fire, sir! Wild fire!" he said, staring straight ahead like he could still see it.
 
Didn't 5 horses die as well? That little CSpan piece I put up - Krick says one of the 18th's soldiers said he saw A P Hill just as clear as day, the flash from the volley lit up everything. He said he had his hands up yelling we're friends! Hill saved himself by falling off his horse and laying flat on his face in the dirt. Jackson didn't have time to do that - Little Sorrel was a Unionist at heart and took off with him toward the Union lines! That would have been some delivery... But Jackson somehow got him turned around and finally stopped. "Wild fire, sir! Wild fire!" he said, staring straight ahead like he could still see it.
Hi Diane,
Thanks for mentioning the horses. I read the account again and need to edit my previous post. The correct version is 5 rounds hit humans. Gen Jackson was hit by 3 of the 5. Two couriers were also hit, one killed and the other wounded. Additionally, 2 horses in the Jackson group were killed.
 
I was having some sound trouble with the C-Span piece---But I will get it worked out---Anyway haven't heard yet. I always hate it when you see the pictures of the poor dead horses. Is not Little Sorrel buried close to Jackson at VMI?
 
I was having some sound trouble with the C-Span piece---But I will get it worked out---Anyway haven't heard yet. I always hate it when you see the pictures of the poor dead horses. Is not Little Sorrel buried close to Jackson at VMI?
I agree with you about the horses and sadly the Civil War was very rough on them. I recall one account where Gen Hancock's horse was wounded at Gettysburg maybe (not sure) and he gave it a big hug then with tears in his eyes, he told an aide to put it down. I don't know about Jackson's horse. Some friends of mine visited Lexington recently so I'll send them an email and ask. I am meeting those friends and one other friend in Petersburg in a couple of weeks. I have toured the Petersburg Battlefield before , but a long time ago. We will meet at the infamous Crater, tour Petersburg, then follow Lee's withdraw west to Appomattox. Should be a good day. I have done the withdraw route before as well as Appomattox but again it has been awhile. I am told there is a new museum at Appomattox now. If anyone has any recommendations on "must see' spots, I am certainly open to suggestions.
 
Little Sorrel's hide was immediately mounted and presented to the Virginia Military Institute Museum, where it's still a popular attraction. The taxidermist took the bones as partial payment and gave them to the Carnegie Museum in Pittsburgh, something that never sat right with Southerners. The VMI Museum got the bones back, cremated and interred them in 1997, on the parade grounds, at the feet of a statue of General Jackson. "It's the right thing to do," says the curator.

Of course, for those not aware, Jackson is in the Lexington Cemetery with his family. :smile: Well, except for his arm.....
 
I agree with you about the horses and sadly the Civil War was very rough on them. I recall one account where Gen Hancock's horse was wounded at Gettysburg maybe (not sure) and he gave it a big hug then with tears in his eyes, he told an aide to put it down. I don't know about Jackson's horse. Some friends of mine visited Lexington recently so I'll send them an email and ask. I am meeting those friends and one other friend in Petersburg in a couple of weeks. I have toured the Petersburg Battlefield before , but a long time ago. We will meet at the infamous Crater, tour Petersburg, then follow Lee's withdraw west to Appomattox. Should be a good day. I have done the withdraw route before as well as Appomattox but again it has been awhile. I am told there is a new museum at Appomattox now. If anyone has any recommendations on "must see' spots, I am certainly open to suggestions.

Appomattox is interesting ---It wasn't what I expected----You know that the fellow who had the house at 1st Manassas moved his family there to get out of the line of fire---They used his house to sign the surrender---Wilbur McClain was his name if I remember right. South of Appomattox is the little town Gordonsville ---Had a hospital there and a tour---Guide was very knowledgeable.
 
There could have been a 3rd shooter as you say----But, and someone who may know please correct, do not smoothbores fire what is known as buck and ball which is three rounds in one---like a shotgun. Not as accurate as an Enfield but bad news at close range. A N.C. unit used them at Sharpsburg at the sunken road with great effect. If they used buck and ball the two shooters could have hit Jackson with three balls.

Not exactly - buck and ball is ONE regular .69 caliber round ball, plus 3 buckshot, which are smaller than a pea. The shot by themselves are what're used in a shotgun, hence the name! There are different sizes of shot, too, with swan shot - big enough to bring down a LARGE bird - being I believe the largest. Your hypothesis depends on whatever Dr. Hunter McGuire said he removed, and I don't remember that; if it was 3 balls, then he was talking about the large ones, NOT the buckshot.
 
You know that the fellow who had the house at 1st Manassas moved his family there to get out of the line of fire---They used his house to sign the surrender---Wilbur McClain was his name if I remember right.

Wilbur McLean

I always hate it when you see the pictures of the poor dead horses. Is not Little Sorrel buried close to Jackson at VMI?

VMI.jpg

Close, but not buried - his hide, anyway!
 
Thanks James---Maybe someone knows what size shot was removed for sure----Did they always use buck and ball or did they use just the .69 by itself on occasions? Sounding like three soldiers involved---maybe.
 
Thanks James---Maybe someone knows what size shot was removed for sure----Did they always use buck and ball or did they use just the .69 by itself on occasions? Sounding like three soldiers involved---maybe.

Depends - Buck and ball was a specific cartridge, and a single .69 ball cartridge could be used just as well. Supposedly the b&b was more Confederate ammunition than Federal. Ammunition was manufactured ( rolled ) in "laboratories" ( factories ), usually by young women, and tied in bundles of 10 cartridges. The packages were then packed into wooden crates for issue to troops in the field, all the ammunition in each crate the same kind, which was stenciled on the outside in white paint. Soldiers did NOT prepare their own ammunition in the field from loose powder and lead - guerrillas and irregulars, maybe.
 
The Doctor's report indicates 3 balls and says nothing of size---I think you are right, .69 and three hits from three men. By the way so folks get it right the name was Wilmer "McLean"---They just stuffed the horse? Well I have heard of folks stuffing their dogs. The Doctor's report was well written.
 
The Doctor's report indicates 3 balls and says nothing of size---I think you are right, .69 and three hits from three men. By the way so folks get it right the name was Wilmer "McLean"---They just stuffed the horse? Well I have heard of folks stuffing their dogs. The Doctor's report was well written.

Well, McGuire did end up being the first president of the American Medical Association. :smile:
 
Jackson was certainly odd but a lot of it was his crazy childhood. I happen to believe he was also an aspie, which isn't necessarily a bad thing for a general. He could sure focus! He had a photographic memory - he studied by memorizing whole books. He'd read a few pages then stand in front of a blank wall and read them from what he'd seen until it was memorized. That's why he once marked a student wrong for getting a series of items for artillery out of the order they were in in the book! The cadet had it all right, just not in the precise order of the writer. But if you were into religion, you definitely got along with Jackson. I think that's why he and Stuart hit it off well. Stuart was the exact opposite - outgoing, fun-loving, dearly loved to eat anything in large quantities, not concerned about his health - but he was deeply religious. (And, he was an aggressive commander just like Jackson.) Jackson considered everything in his life, right down to a mosquito bite, to be ordered by God. The only battlefield he visited while he was in Europe was Waterloo - somebody asked him why he thought Napoleon lost that crucial battle. "Because God stopped him right there!" said Jackson with firmness. I'm certain he felt that way about Chancellorsville.
Diane,
As I read different threads around the board I see your rank is well earned. I have tried the 'search engine' without success, so could you tell me, please, if there has already been a discussion speculating about what was said between Lee and Jackson at their last meeting. I have read reports of different versions that state the meeting took place sometime late on May 1, or very early on May 2. One report said the two generals sat on cracker boxes and talked, at least one other report I read said they both remained on their horses. In any event there seems to be no record of that conversation. Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Diane,
As I read different threads around the board I see your rank is well earned. I have tried the 'search engine' without success, so could you tell me, please, if there has already been a discussion speculating about what was said between Lee and Jackson at their last meeting. I have read reports of different versions that state the meeting took place sometime late on May 1, or very early on May 2. One report said the two generals sat on cracker boxes and talked, at least one other report I read said they both remained on their horses. In any event there seems to be no record of that conversation. Thanks in advance for any help.

Thanks! I don't know that I say that much but I do talk a lot! :laugh: :redface:

Jedediah Hotchkiss said that they were sitting on cracker boxes and when he put a map on another cracker box he heard this:

Jackson: I propose to go right around there.
Lee: What do you propose to do it with?
Jackson: With my whole command.
Lee: What will you leave me here to hold the Federal army with?
Jackson: The two divisions that you have here.
Lee: Well, go ahead.

Now the debate has always been who came up with the idea, who tweaked it the most, and who has the bigger share of credit for it! Imho, most of the credit is Jackson's. I don't doubt Lee contributed a good deal, though, but his best contribution was letting Jackson do what he wanted even though it left him with a teeny tiny handful! His army was already split in two, and now he was splitting one half yet again.
 
Thanks! I don't know that I say that much but I do talk a lot! :laugh: :redface:

Jedediah Hotchkiss said that they were sitting on cracker boxes and when he put a map on another cracker box he heard this:

Jackson: I propose to go right around there.
Lee: What do you propose to do it with?
Jackson: With my whole command.
Lee: What will you leave me here to hold the Federal army with?
Jackson: The two divisions that you have here.
Lee: Well, go ahead.

Now the debate has always been who came up with the idea, who tweaked it the most, and who has the bigger share of credit for it! Imho, most of the credit is Jackson's. I don't doubt Lee contributed a good deal, though, but his best contribution was letting Jackson do what he wanted even though it left him with a teeny tiny handful! His army was already split in two, and now he was splitting one half yet again.
Thank you very much. Some friends and I have plans to visit Petersburg, Va. Battlefield and follow Lee's march to Appomattox. That trip is planned for May 11. I am going to suggest to them that we meet earlier and visit all the key Jackson sites in the Chancellorsville area. Something has really started to interest me in this story. I cannot pinpoint what, but something has me wanting to explore this in much more detail than ever before. I can't say what exactly, so I will just keep digging until I find "something" or the well goes dry. Thank you again, and btw, I have found all your posts informative.
 
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