was lee a traitor?

A

abolitionist

Guest
I am the opinion he was. He was a commisoned officer in the United States of America Army which is a position of trustn and responsiblity. It was his duty first to honor that commitment.
 
I am the opinion he was. He was a commisoned officer in the United States of America Army which is a position of trustn and responsiblity. It was his duty first to honor that commitment.
I think his biggest mistake was trusting his generals to keep him informed at Gettysburg, some of his generals were doing there own thing...........they never carried out the orders they were given. My first post dont be to hard on me,.
 
I find it hard to understand what lee did. I know that most Southerners fought because they believed that the Yankees were out to conquer the South, take their slaves, and make Dixie over into a new New England and they had to fight to protect their homeland. Lee knew better than that. He knew that it was the US Government that had educated him, not the Commonwealth of Virginia, that it was the US government that had been paying his salary for the previous 20 some odd years, not Virginia and that his oath was to the US, not Virginia. Whatever his motives were to say "No" when the US Government most needed his services is something that has always eluded and disturbed me. He may have been a gentleman and otherwise honorable and even virtuous but I have always seen his refusal to honor his oath, to take command of the US Army when it needed him, distasteful as it may have been, as a failure of character. I think the Virginians George Thomas and Winfield Scott men of greater character.
 
I find it hard to understand what lee did. I know that most Southerners fought because they believed that the Yankees were out to conquer the South, take their slaves, and make Dixie over into a new New England and they had to fight to protect their homeland. Lee knew better than that. He knew that it was the US Government that had educated him, not the Commonwealth of Virginia, that it was the US government that had been paying his salary for the previous 20 some odd years, not Virginia and that his oath was to the US, not Virginia. Whatever his motives were to say "No" when the US Government most needed his services is something that has always eluded and disturbed me. He may have been a gentleman and otherwise honorable and even virtuous but I have always seen his refusal to honor his oath, to take command of the US Army when it needed him, distasteful as it may have been, as a failure of character. I think the Virginians George Thomas and Winfield Scott men of greater character.

I think he was after glory. He thought this would be another revolutionary war and that he would be a hero. I listened to a book on cd and they said the newspapers in the south ran inflammatory stories and editorials about how the Yankees were going to come down and make their daughters marry blacks. Of course the average joe got upset and ran to arms. But, like you said, Lee should have known better.
 
I am the opinion he was. He was a commisoned officer in the United States of America Army which is a position of trustn and responsiblity. It was his duty first to honor that commitment.


He took an oath. What's a man worth if he doesn't keep his word?

edited to add: of course there are exceptions, like breaking an oath to Hitler.
 
He took an oath to support the United States Constitution. He violated that oath. Therefore he (and a whole bunch of other Confederates) could easily have been tried for treason. Those guys never thanked us (the North) for the pardons. I am not going off on my usual rant here - but why ask such an obvious question with such an obvious answer? Are you taking a poll? or a survey?
 
I think he was after glory. He thought this would be another revolutionary war and that he would be a hero. I listened to a book on cd and they said the newspapers in the south ran inflammatory stories and editorials about how the Yankees were going to come down and make their daughters marry blacks. Of course the average joe got upset and ran to arms. But, like you said, Lee should have known better.

I agree completely. Lee, to me, is the picture of vainglory. He wasn't fighting for Virginia, he was fighting for the plantation class, of which he was a loyal member.

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I find it hard to understand what lee did. I know that most Southerners fought because they believed that the Yankees were out to conquer the South, take their slaves, and make Dixie over into a new New England and they had to fight to protect their homeland. Lee knew better than that. He knew that it was the US Government that had educated him, not the Commonwealth of Virginia, that it was the US government that had been paying his salary for the previous 20 some odd years, not Virginia and that his oath was to the US, not Virginia. Whatever his motives were to say "No" when the US Government most needed his services is something that has always eluded and disturbed me. He may have been a gentleman and otherwise honorable and even virtuous but I have always seen his refusal to honor his oath, to take command of the US Army when it needed him, distasteful as it may have been, as a failure of character. I think the Virginians George Thomas and Winfield Scott men of greater character.


Eloquently stated.
 
By the way, George Thomas - the Rock of Chickamaugua (ok, I can't spell) - was a Virginian, honored his oath to his country, and his family never spoke to him again. They didn't return his sword either. There is a real strange exhibit on him in the Virginia Museum in Richmond. Worth noting as to the ambivalence of Southerners on non-Confederate guys.
 
By the way, George Thomas - the Rock of Chickamaugua (ok, I can't spell) - was a Virginian, honored his oath to his country, and his family never spoke to him again. They didn't return his sword either. There is a real strange exhibit on him in the Virginia Museum in Richmond. Worth noting as to the ambivalence of Southerners on non-Confederate guys.

Not all southrons. 40% of Virginia officers remained with the Union. Some of Lee's family fought for the Union. His sister never spoke to him again. Chincoteague refused to seceded and even flew a large Union flag to ruffle their neighbors. They were loyal to a cause and not the south or particular states.
 
He was but he was stuck. His choice was to be a traitor to the United States or be a traitor to Virginia and his own kin. Lousy choice.

Wrong choice.

There's been a discussion in another thread about statues commemorating Union generals that brought up the name Admiral David G. Farragut, who could be Lee's nemesis.

Crossposting from: http://civilwartalk.com/threads/sherman-statue-in-central-park.86491/#post-673633

Expired Image Removed

Admiral David G. Farragut (1801-1870) was one of the great heroes of the Civil War. This was the first major public commission executed by Saint-Gaudens. Unveiled in New York City’s Madison Square Park on Memorial Day in1881, it immediately received high praise in the press, and from art critics Richard Watson Gilder and Mariana G. Van Rensselaer, who commended the new vitality and naturalism in the monument.

http://www.sgnhs.org/Augustus SGaudens CD-HTML/Monuments/CivilWar/farragut1.htm

Interesting to note, Farragut was a southerner, born in Tennessee and lived in Virginia prior to the CW though, unlike Robert E. Lee, he kept his allegiance to the Union.

"Farragut made it clear to all who knew him that he regarded secession as treason."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Farragut#Civil_War_service
 
he, like all the US Army officers that left the service to join the Confederacy resigned their commissions before going to their respective states. After the war, they were offered their citizenship back if they swore another oath of loyalty to the US, and the majority did that. Lee was denied his citizenship even after taking the oath, President Grant worked to reinstate him as a citizen, but Lee died before that was accomplished. I believe that Lee was given his citizenship posthumously sometime in the 1970's.

If you're going to brand Lee a traitor, then you have to brand all who served or supported the Confederacy as traitors also. It was a different time, something like 75% + - of the population of the time never traveled outside of their respective states of residence, hence their devotion to their state more than to the nation as a whole or to such idealistic things like emancipation or union.
 
Not all southrons. 40% of Virginia officers remained with the Union. Some of Lee's family fought for the Union. His sister never spoke to him again. Chincoteague refused to seceded and even flew a large Union flag to ruffle their neighbors. They were loyal to a case and not the south or particular states.

Therein lies the seminal distinction between North and South.
 
His choice was to be a traitor to the United States or be a traitor to Virginia and his own kin. Lousy choice.

Many people argue that Lee forsake his personal views (opposition to secession and, if you believe some of the Lost Cause advocates, opposition to slavery) to side with his state and his family, and suggest that this was a selfless sacrifice worthy of praise. I think it may show something else. It means that Lee was a follower, that he could not or would not stand up for his own beliefs. At its heart, this "Lee could not turn against his state and family" explanation directs responsibility away from Lee. For instance, why did Lee have to follow his family? As a dominant figure in his family (however large one may wish to define it), was he not able to stand as a figurehead in defining the Lee family loyalty? And, as others noted here, Virginia was hardly a solid secessionist block. Lee's decision put him firmly against a large population of Unionist Virginians.

Overall, Lee's decision to support secession and the Confederacy made him a firm enemy of the United States. If his decision to support the Confederacy was made in spite of his personal views against secession and slavery, then he proved himself to be easily led and silenced, hardly the epic leader and figure many portray him as today.
 
As a Virginian, with direct family lineage going back to the mid 17th Century in Virginia, I say not only was Gen Lee a Traitor, but so was every other officer who had swore an oath. That oath has no expiration date. The best course of action would have been to resign and sit the war out. Lee certainly knew there was no way an upstart Confederacy could win. I do not know what game he was playing at, maybe casting the dice for a huge upset as his family witnessed in the Revolutionary war. I guess if he was playing the high risk high reward game, he forgot to take into consideration that the US was not fighting a war with another country which was far more important than some an upstart break away movement, as was the case with Great Britain during the Revolution.

I am proud of my family's service during the Civil War, for the losing side. None of the 19 members of my family resigned a commission or ended an enlistment in the US Army to join the Confederacy. Who knows, I may have a different opinion had I been alive 150 years ago and read every paper I could get my hands on, but I think that is unlikely.
 
I find it hard to understand what lee did. I know that most Southerners fought because they believed that the Yankees were out to conquer the South, take their slaves, and make Dixie over into a new New England and they had to fight to protect their homeland. Lee knew better than that. He knew that it was the US Government that had educated him, not the Commonwealth of Virginia, that it was the US government that had been paying his salary for the previous 20 some odd years, not Virginia and that his oath was to the US, not Virginia. Whatever his motives were to say "No" when the US Government most needed his services is something that has always eluded and disturbed me. He may have been a gentleman and otherwise honorable and even virtuous but I have always seen his refusal to honor his oath, to take command of the US Army when it needed him, distasteful as it may have been, as a failure of character. I think the Virginians George Thomas and Winfield Scott men of greater character.
A majority of those Southern soldiers did not even own slaves. Most volunteered simply because they lived in the South, their community was going off to war, or because they were seeking what they thought was going to be an "adventure" and the "glory" of battle. Imagine if you lived in the North or the South and your country is going to war, all your family members and friends are going off to fight. Most people in that situation would stay and fight with their family and friends, no matter what their political beliefs were. Also, many on both sides, at least in 1861 expected the war to be over fast, so many wanted to see it before it ended. Although all soldiers fight for their own personal motives and usually what keeps them fighting is separate than what drove them to go off to war.
 
I find it hard to understand what lee did. I know that most Southerners fought because they believed that the Yankees were out to conquer the South, take their slaves, and make Dixie over into a new New England and they had to fight to protect their homeland. Lee knew better than that. He knew that it was the US Government that had educated him, not the Commonwealth of Virginia, that it was the US government that had been paying his salary for the previous 20 some odd years, not Virginia and that his oath was to the US, not Virginia. Whatever his motives were to say "No" when the US Government most needed his services is something that has always eluded and disturbed me. He may have been a gentleman and otherwise honorable and even virtuous but I have always seen his refusal to honor his oath, to take command of the US Army when it needed him, distasteful as it may have been, as a failure of character. I think the Virginians George Thomas and Winfield Scott men of greater character.
Not to start a war, but what the hay. Could and should he have been court martialed and imprisoned on the spot??? His next move was pretty obvious. Why not stop it before he started?
 
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