Was John Brown a Traitor? (Poll)

Was John Brown a Traitor?

  • Yes

    Votes: 59 60.8%
  • No

    Votes: 35 36.1%
  • Don't Know

    Votes: 3 3.1%

  • Total voters
    97

brass napoleon

Colonel
Retired Moderator
Member of the Year
Honored Fallen Comrade
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Location
Ohio
To me the poll question was Brown a traitor to the US, and in my opinion I have not seen any evidence that he intended to wage war against the government of his country..If slaves were simply property then at most to me his crimes involved a widespread conspiracy of armed robbery along with other crimes committed in the course of that..Whether or not slavery was the underpinning of Southern soceity does not determine whether or not it was a treasonus act, as using that logic then it can't be said that he was treasonus to free states..


Under his original plan, it's absolutely certain that the federal government would have come against him, and he would have waged war against them in return. Under the plan that he finally executed, it's hard to say what he really had in mind, but nevertheless he attacked a federal installation. So treason works for me in both cases. :wink:
 

JerseyBart

Brigadier General
Moderator
Forum Host
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Location
New Jersey
Under his original plan, it's absolutely certain that the federal government would have come against him, and he would have waged war against them in return. Under the plan that he finally executed, it's hard to say what he really had in mind, but nevertheless he attacked a federal installation. So treason works for me in both cases. :wink:
Just like Lee.
 

JerseyBart

Brigadier General
Moderator
Forum Host
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Location
New Jersey
Aga
But it wasn't LEE'S plan. Lee was acting in accordance to instructions from his legal state government. John Brown was making his own law.
...against the instructions in the oath he swore to his legal federal government job, and when he resigned it, he still took up arms against his country.
 

brass napoleon

Colonel
Retired Moderator
Member of the Year
Honored Fallen Comrade
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Location
Ohio
Aga
...against the instructions in the oath he swore to his legal federal government job, and when he resigned it, he still took up arms against his country.

And that was the choice that he had to make, that was forced upon him, and that he would have preferred to never make. John Brown, on the other hand, had no choice forced upon him. He instigated the treason of his own volition.
 

brass napoleon

Colonel
Retired Moderator
Member of the Year
Honored Fallen Comrade
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Location
Ohio
And that was the choice that he had to make, that was forced upon him, and that he would have preferred to never make. John Brown, on the other hand, had no choice forced upon him. He instigated the treason of his own volition.

Oops, meant to add...

If there had been no John Brown, there would have been no attack on Harpers Ferry in 1859. If there had been no Robert E. Lee, there still would have been an attack on Fort Sumter.
 

JerseyBart

Brigadier General
Moderator
Forum Host
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Location
New Jersey
And that was the choice that he had to make, that was forced upon him, and that he would have preferred to never make. John Brown, on the other hand, had no choice forced upon him. He instigated the treason of his own volition.
Treason but vs. Treason but is still treason for both.
 

wilber6150

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Retired Moderator
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Location
deep in the Mohawk Valley of Central New York
And that was the choice that he had to make, that was forced upon him, and that he would have preferred to never make. John Brown, on the other hand, had no choice forced upon him. He instigated the treason of his own volition.
No he felt a higher calling to do something to help people stuck in a lifetime of bondage...
 

wilber6150

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Retired Moderator
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Location
deep in the Mohawk Valley of Central New York
[
Oops, meant to add...

If there had been no John Brown, there would have been no attack on Harpers Ferry in 1859. If there had been no Robert E. Lee, there still would have been an attack on Fort Sumter.

So he knowingly joined a side in which he knew had already initiated conflict with the Union government..Sounds like treason to me...
 

brass napoleon

Colonel
Retired Moderator
Member of the Year
Honored Fallen Comrade
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Location
Ohio
[

So he knowingly joined a side in which he knew had already initiated conflict with the Union government..Sounds like treason to me...

It is treason to you. That's the point. It's not treason to me.
 

brass napoleon

Colonel
Retired Moderator
Member of the Year
Honored Fallen Comrade
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Location
Ohio
Lets see so Lee had a higher duty to not fight against his fellow Virginians, Brown felt he had a higher duty to free people in slavery.. I guess Lees argument was meaningless as well right...

Choosing between two elected masters, and electing yourself your own master are two completely different things.
 

brass napoleon

Colonel
Retired Moderator
Member of the Year
Honored Fallen Comrade
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Location
Ohio
I
It is treason to the Constitution as well...kinda trumps your opinion.

Then I'm assuming you'd consider the people who violated the Fugitive Slave clause of the Constitution to be traitors also. Personally, I don't.
 

wilber6150

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Retired Moderator
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Location
deep in the Mohawk Valley of Central New York
Choosing between two elected masters, and electing yourself your own master are two completely different things.
So ones thoughts of whats right and wrong have no basis in a persons decesions in life? Lee didn't say I'm going to fight for Virginia because my Virginian masters bid me too, after much thought and deliberation he felt a higher calling that made him leave the US army and join Virginia and his family...He was master of his destiny and he chose the path in life to fight for a country whose basis for existance was to keep a race of people enslaved, Brown chose a path that he thought might free a race of people...Yet Lee is enshrined and Brown crucified..
 

JerseyBart

Brigadier General
Moderator
Forum Host
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Location
New Jersey
Then I'm assuming you'd consider the people who violated the Fugitive Slave clause of the Constitution to be traitors also. Personally, I don't.
Even though morally correct, did they defy the Constitution? Yes...then you know my answer.
Man, I'm elusive.
 

brass napoleon

Colonel
Retired Moderator
Member of the Year
Honored Fallen Comrade
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Location
Ohio
Even though morally correct, did they defy the Constitution? Yes...then you know my answer.
Man, I'm elusive.

You are indeed. But you're consistent, and I respect that, even if I disagree with you.
 
Top