Was it Brownlow's fault that the KKK was formed

diane

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Without Nathan Forrest I dont think the KKK would have got off the ground. They were weak in numbers and powers up to 1900 IMO. I think w/o the Nativist - anti immigrant movement between 1900 and 1920 I dont think the Klan would have gone anywhere. In order to succeed, it seems like history bares out that in order to succeed you have to have someone to hate

I might add that without Parson Brownlow's extreme views and actions against the former Confederates, that the thing wouldn't have gotten off the first floor because decent men like Forrest would not have seen a need to join it. His farewell message to his troops shows he had every intention of following the law of the land and being a loyal citizen, encouraging his men to do the same. They expected to be treated as loyal citizens after they'd done all required of them to regain that status. Didn't work out that way by a long shot.
 

Borderruffian

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I might add that without Parson Brownlow's extreme views and actions against the former Confederates, that the thing wouldn't have gotten off the first floor because decent men like Forrest would not have seen a need to join it. His farewell message to his troops shows he had every intention of following the law of the land and being a loyal citizen, encouraging his men to do the same. They expected to be treated as loyal citizens after they'd done all required of them to regain that status. Didn't work out that way by a long shot.
Yeah when you force the legislatures back into the state house at rifle point with your Provost Guard it sends a message on your administration.
 

Hawkins

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However Klan or Kulxer"and KKK are specific terms referring to a specific organization. If any and all were being referred to "Night Riders " would have been better to include all groups in a "catch all" .

Or the phrase "KKK and similar organizations" as in the title of this thread? I took that to mean the KKK and similar organizations. What did you take that to mean?
 

Borderruffian

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And when you attempt hold the Freedmen as slaves in all but name that also sends a message. Events do not happen in a vacuum.
No nothing happens in a vacuum, every action has an equal or greater reaction . When you blame the side you dislike for their actions while ignoring the side you favor you only get half the story. .....the half you agree with. Reconstruction was a terrible period for the South Lincoln's death assured that and gave Stanton and the radical republican elements sway. It became a punitive evolution. People will only take so much **** before some respond and others support them.
 

Hawkins

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No nothing happens in a vacuum, every action has an equal or greater reaction . When you blame the side you dislike for their actions while ignoring the side you favor you only get half the story. .....the half you agree with. Reconstruction was a terrible period for the South Lincoln's death assured that and gave Stanton and the radical republican elements sway. It became a punitive evolution. People will only take so much **** before some respond and others support them.

Yes, it was all those darn Radicals fault. It had nothing to do with the reports of murder, rape, violence, or the repression of Black freedom I am sure. You seem to act like the South was somehow innocent bystanders and not active participants in the increasingly deteriorating situation in the South.

P.S. After re-reading some of the commentaries, please do not take offense to any perceived tone. At worst, it half-hearted ribbing and, at best, honest questions.
 

leftyhunter

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I might add that without Parson Brownlow's extreme views and actions against the former Confederates, that the thing wouldn't have gotten off the first floor because decent men like Forrest would not have seen a need to join it. His farewell message to his troops shows he had every intention of following the law of the land and being a loyal citizen, encouraging his men to do the same. They expected to be treated as loyal citizens after they'd done all required of them to regain that status. Didn't work out that way by a long shot.
Is your argument but for Brownlow there would of been no violence against blacks and Unionists during Reconstruction?
That would be a good topic for a seperate thread.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

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No nothing happens in a vacuum, every action has an equal or greater reaction . When you blame the side you dislike for their actions while ignoring the side you favor you only get half the story. .....the half you agree with. Reconstruction was a terrible period for the South Lincoln's death assured that and gave Stanton and the radical republican elements sway. It became a punitive evolution. People will only take so much **** before some respond and others support them.
You could start a seperate thread that argues that the KKK and other white supremacist orginizations were absolutely justified in repressing black civil rights for a good one hundred years.
Lets all try to stay on topic for this thread.
Leftyhunter
 

Borderruffian

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You could start a seperate thread that argues that the KKK and other white supremacist orginizations were absolutely justified in repressing black civil rights for a good one hundred years.
Lets all try to stay on topic for this thread.
Leftyhunter
Did I even imply that lefty? Have ever implied that? No I haven't. I point out there were reasons for such thing's reasons that are often ignored by those who choose to enshrine one side or the other that often doesn't deserve enshrinement based solely on slanted history and faulty narrative.
 

leftyhunter

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Did I even imply that lefty? Have ever implied that? No I haven't. I point out there were reasons for such thing's reasons that are often ignored by those who choose to enshrine one side or the other that often doesn't deserve enshrinement based solely on slanted history and faulty narrative.
I was just sugesting a title for a thread. This threads only purpose is to prove or disprove the assertions I cited in my first post using sources. Feel free to post a seperate thread about white supremacist organizations however you wish to do so.
Leftyhunter
 

diane

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State of Jefferson
Is your argument but for Brownlow there would of been no violence against blacks and Unionists during Reconstruction?
That would be a good topic for a seperate thread.
Leftyhunter

There would have been violence no matter what - some people would do that if everything was coming up roses. What I'm saying is Brownlow's harsh policies and outright persecution caused men like Forrest to go this route, when otherwise they would not. In fact, they would have worked to stop violence. There's a reason the klan started in Tennessee and not another Southern state.
 

leftyhunter

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There would have been violence no matter what - some people would do that if everything was coming up roses. What I'm saying is Brownlow's harsh policies and outright persecution caused men like Forrest to go this route, when otherwise they would not. In fact, they would have worked to stop violence. There's a reason the klan started in Tennessee and not another Southern state.
That would make an interesting topic for another thread. I just want this thread to stay focused on the points I made on post # 1.
Leftyhunter
 

Borderruffian

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Your right orginizations that kill, rape and beat black people attempting to assert their political rights are by no means white supremacist:wink:
Leftyhunter
You're getting a bad habit of twisting my comments away from historical facts that don't suit your preferred narrative. It seems. Well that's okay I guess have fun in you're bubble.
 

leftyhunter

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You're getting a bad habit of twisting my comments away from historical facts that don't suit your preferred narrative. It seems. Well that's okay I guess have fun in you're bubble.
You could try sticking to the OP. Did the KKK and other similar organizations cower the U.S. Army and state militias or did they not using sourced evidence.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

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Here is a very well researched article on how one U.S. Army major Merrill dismantled a large KKK chapter in York County, South Carolina.
Major Merrill was not afraid of the Klan nor was he afraid of bushwackers in Missouri.
I think @ForeverFree @Dedej @Hawkins @Pat Young will especially enjoy this article.
www.slate.com/articles/news_politics/history/2016/03/how_a_detatchment_of u_s army_soldiers_smoked_out_the_original_ku_klux_klan.I couldn't make the link work but just google " U.S. Army fights Ku Klux Klan during Reconstruction. It will be the first article on the page.
The tragedy if Reconstruction is the Klan was quite beatable. They were not that brave but they still had the ability to terrorise black people for a good one hundred years before the federal government stoid up to them.
@Story remember Joseph Hester who offed the commander of the CSN Sumtter. Yeah he's in there . Guess what he did? Not make the Klan happy would be an understatement.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

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los angeles ca
Is it true that as @CSA Today asserts that the North Carolina State Troops along with their leader the former Union commander of the Third North Carolina Mounted Infantry Union were cowed by the KKK during the Kirk-Holden War?
Using the book "Kirk's Raiders a notorious band of scoundrels and thieves" Matthew Bumgarner Tar Heel Press
p.90
Of the 600 troops Kirk recruited" 399 were under the legal age of military service and 64 were legally to old" Intrestingly enough Kirk could not recruit many of his former soldiers.
In no way did Kirk lead a disciplined well mannered fighting force he led a teen age mob. However the question remains were Kirk's mostly teenage force cowed by the might KKK?
P. 96
Federal Army Captain George P. Rodney described Kirk's men"the North Carolina State Troops under Col. Kirk are nothing more then an armed mob".
So did the KKK vanquish this armed mostly teenage mob?
When Gov. Holden had to disband the North Carolina State troops (p.101) some of the militia men where ambushed but no casualties were reported. A whole trainload of Kirk's men
were ambushed but none hurt.
Perhaps some of the Nc State Troops were killed or injured by the Klan but none so mentioned in the above book.
Perhaps there are credible sources to show that they were.
It is interesting if a bunch of teenagers cowed the Klan.
Leftyhunter
 

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