Chickamauga Was Chickamauga a Union victory?

I hope I didn't answer this already but I don't believe Chickamauga was a Union victory.
 
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Again I fail to understand you.i just read Gideon Welles Diary from 4/14/65 to 4/17/65 and all that they are discussing is the assassination of Lincoln and the inauguration of Johnson and what the government will do.there is no mention of Rosecrans period.
On the first part of your post again you take a statement out of context.your quote from Lincoln's letter is from the latter part of the letter but you refuse to disclose what the letter was about.it was in response to a letter that Lincoln receive from Rosecrans of the 22nd.the letter was just Lincoln's way of giving an apology that through Halleck, Rosecrans heard that Lincoln was dissatisfied with him.lincoln was just being nice in the way he handled his generals.he was just kissing butt.thats all.
So Lincoln was lying? Better tell that to Stones River Battlefield Park which displays the quote prominently in the visitor center.
The Welles diary entry shows that Lincoln considered Stones River a victory and mentioned it along with Gettysburg and Vicksburg. Also interesting is that Grant objected to calling Stones River a victory. A footnote added by Welles noted Grant's jealous attitude.
Most people have never heard of Stones River much less that Lincoln had said positive things about it (unless he was lying.)
 
So Lincoln was lying? Better tell that to Stones River Battlefield Park which displays the quote prominently in the visitor center.
The Welles diary entry shows that Lincoln considered Stones River a victory and mentioned it along with Gettysburg and Vicksburg. Also interesting is that Grant objected to calling Stones River a victory. A footnote added by Welles noted Grant's jealous attitude.
Most people have never heard of Stones River much less that Lincoln had said positive things about it (unless he was lying.)
Maybe you have your dates wrong but the 4/14/65 diary entry is about the assassination.
 
Maybe you have your dates wrong but the 4/14/65 diary entry is about the assassination.
Probably the previous day below is a citation from an indirect link. Btw there are several versions of the Welles diary not all are on line.
General Grant, who was present, said he was hourly expecting word. The President remarked it would, he had no doubt, come soon, and come favorably, for he had last night the usual dream which he had preceding nearly every great and important event of the War. Generally the news had been favorable which succeeded this dream, and the dream itself was always the same. I inquired what this remarkable dream could be. He said it related to your (my) element, the water; that he seemed to be in some singular, indescribable vessel, and that he was moving with great rapidity towards an indefinite shore; that he had this dream preceding Sumter, Bull Run, Antietam, Gettysburg, Stone River, Vicksburg, Wilmington, etc. General Grant said Stone River was certainly no victory, and he knew of no great results which followed from it. The President said however that might be, his dream preceded that fight.
'I had,' the President remarked, 'this strange dream again last night, and we shall, judging from the past, have great news very soon. I think it must be from Sherman. My thoughts are in that direction, as are most of yours.'
 
In the end Chickamauga was the first scene in what can be the Chattanooga Siege... a tactical loss but in the end a victory for the North... Rosecrans was on a roll until Chickamauga if he had won the battle or made it a standoff maybe he would have gone East instead of Grant...
Unless "the political leaders were not unwilling to see evil befall him" Quote from a letter written by Garfield in 1867 in response to a letter which noted that Rosecrans was removed four times each time after a victory.
 
So Lincoln was lying? Better tell that to Stones River Battlefield Park which displays the quote prominently in the visitor center.
The Welles diary entry shows that Lincoln considered Stones River a victory and mentioned it along with Gettysburg and Vicksburg. Also interesting is that Grant objected to calling Stones River a victory. A footnote added by Welles noted Grant's jealous attitude.
Most people have never heard of Stones River much less that Lincoln had said positive things about it (unless he was lying.)
Here is the letter t hat Lincoln wrote.
8/13/1863
My Dear General Rosecrans, yours of the 22nd. Was received yesterday.When I wrote you before I did (not) intend, nor do I engage in an argument with you on military questions.You had informed me you were impressed through Gen.Halleck that I was dissatisfied with you; and I could not bluntly deny that I was without unjustly implicating him.I therefore concluded to tell you the plain truth, being satisfied the matter would thus much smaller than it would if seen by mere glimpses.I repeat my appreciation of you has not abated.I can never forget whilst I remember anything that about the end let year and the beginning of this, you gave us a hard earned victory which had there been a defeat instead the nation could scarcely have lived over.neither can I forget the check you so opportunity fave to a danger as sentiment which was spreading in the north.
A.Lincoln
 
Here is the letter t hat Lincoln wrote.
8/13/1863
My Dear General Rosecrans, yours of the 22nd. Was received yesterday.When I wrote you before I did (not) intend, nor do I engage in an argument with you on military questions.You had informed me you were impressed through Gen.Halleck that I was dissatisfied with you; and I could not bluntly deny that I was without unjustly implicating him.I therefore concluded to tell you the plain truth, being satisfied the matter would thus much smaller than it would if seen by mere glimpses.I repeat my appreciation of you has not abated.I can never forget whilst I remember anything that about the end let year and the beginning of this, you gave us a hard earned victory which had there been a defeat instead the nation could scarcely have lived over.neither can I forget the check you so opportunity fave to a danger as sentiment which was spreading in the north.
A.Lincoln
So is this praising Rosecrans or not? Is Lincoln not saying that eight months after Stones River- after Gettysburg and Vicksburg- he still remembers Stones River and will always remember it? Does he not say that without the victory of Stones River "the nation could scarcely have lived over?" Isn't that high praise?
 
So is this praising Rosecrans or not? Is Lincoln not saying that eight months after Stones River- after Gettysburg and Vicksburg- he still remembers Stones River and will always remember it? Does he not say that without the victory of Stones River "the nation could scarcely have lived over?" Isn't that high praise?
As I stated before this is Lincoln doing what he did best with problem generals.he just kissed butt.open ones eyes, it is not praising him only placate g him.
 
Maybe you have your dates wrong but the 4/14/65 diary entry is about the assassination.
All this may depend on which version of Welles diary you have.
Have not seen the latest publication, I have the 2nd, which shows where corrections and additions to the 1st issue were made.
Now, In the 2nd printing (copyright, 1960), Vol 2. page 280, at where April. 14 is show, is attached a note saying "[this page should be appended to the 13th. It was written after Mr. Lincoln had been assassinated.]
Then, on page 282, near bottom of page, Welles tells of Lincoln's telling of having the dream again of him being "in some singular, indescribable vessel, and that he was moving with great rapidity [toward an indefinite shore]. That he had this dream preceding Sumter, Bull Run, Antietam, Gettysburg, Stone River, Vicksburg, (pg 293) Wilmington, etc. General Grant said Stone River was certainly no victory, and he knew of no great results which followed from it. The President said however that might be, his dream preceded that fight.
(1)[(1)General Grant interrupted to say Stones River was no victory--that a few such fights would have ruined us. The President looked at Grant curiously and inquiringly--said that they might differ on that point, and at all events his dream preceded it.]
I had, the President remarked, "this strange dream again last night, and we shall, judging from the past, have great news very soon. I think it must be from Sherman. My thoughts are in that direction, as are most of yours."
Welles goes on to say, "I write this conversation three days after it occurred, in consequence of what took place Friday night, and but for which the mention of this dream would probably have never been noted. Great events did, indeed, follow, for within a few hours the good and gentle, as well as truly great man who narrated his dream closed forever his earthly career."
As I said, the comments might depend on which version of Welles diary you look at. But this shows more than just the assassination was discussed
But, with the length of time between the battle, and Lincoln's "We Might Differ" comment to Grant, I'm not sure how much of a victory Lincoln had in mind at this later date.
Also would like to note, for Mr. Moore, that Lincoln didn't have the dream preceding just Victories, but Losses as well.
 
All this may depend on which version of Welles diary you have.
Have not seen the latest publication, I have the 2nd, which shows where corrections and additions to the 1st issue were made.
Now, In the 2nd printing (copyright, 1960), Vol 2. page 280, at where April. 14 is show, is attached a note saying "[this page should be appended to the 13th. It was written after Mr. Lincoln had been assassinated.]
Then, on page 282, near bottom of page, Welles tells of Lincoln's telling of having the dream again of him being "in some singular, indescribable vessel, and that he was moving with great rapidity [toward an indefinite shore]. That he had this dream preceding Sumter, Bull Run, Antietam, Gettysburg, Stone River, Vicksburg, (pg 293) Wilmington, etc. General Grant said Stone River was certainly no victory, and he knew of no great results which followed from it. The President said however that might be, his dream preceded that fight.
(1)[(1)General Grant interrupted to say Stones River was no victory--that a few such fights would have ruined us. The President looked at Grant curiously and inquiringly--said that they might differ on that point, and at all events his dream preceded it.]
I had, the President remarked, "this strange dream again last night, and we shall, judging from the past, have great news very soon. I think it must be from Sherman. My thoughts are in that direction, as are most of yours."
Welles goes on to say, "I write this conversation three days after it occurred, in consequence of what took place Friday night, and but for which the mention of this dream would probably have never been noted. Great events did, indeed, follow, for within a few hours the good and gentle, as well as truly great man who narrated his dream closed forever his earthly career."
As I said, the comments might depend on which version of Welles diary you look at. But this shows more than just the assassination was discussed
But, with the length of time between the battle, and Lincoln's "We Might Differ" comment to Grant, I'm not sure how much of a victory Lincoln had in mind at this later date.
Also would like to note, for Mr. Moore, that Lincoln didn't have the dream preceding just Victories, but Losses as well.
In your example of welles diary he says he wrote these comments three days afterwards which would make on the 17th not the 14th as is the date in question.so I would feel what was written on the 14th just dealt with the assassination and the other comment were an after thought days later.
 
In your example of welles diary he says he wrote these comments three days afterwards which would make on the 17th not the 14th as is the date in question.so I would feel what was written on the 14th just dealt with the assassination and the other comment were an after thought days later.
In your example of welles diary he says he wrote these comments three days afterwards which would make on the 17th not the 14th as is the date in question.so I would feel what was written on the 14th just dealt with the assassination and the other comment were an after thought days later.
A bit more reading agrees with you, Mr. Moore should have stated the conversation on Stones River happened on the 13th not the 14th
 
So Lincoln was lying? Better tell that to Stones River Battlefield Park which displays the quote prominently in the visitor center.
The Welles diary entry shows that Lincoln considered Stones River a victory and mentioned it along with Gettysburg and Vicksburg. Also interesting is that Grant objected to calling Stones River a victory. A footnote added by Welles noted Grant's jealous attitude.
Most people have never heard of Stones River much less that Lincoln had said positive things about it (unless he was lying.)

"Most people have never heard of Stones River.....".......OK, now I am REALLY done following this thread!....**slaps my hand to my forehead**....
 
"Most people have never heard of Stones River.....".......OK, now I am REALLY done following this thread!....**slaps my hand to my forehead**....
You think most people in the US have heard of the battle of Stones River? I work in the guiding business in DC and can assure they haven't. Hardly anyone has. I would say most have heard of Gettysburg and Vicksburg.
 
You think most people in the US have heard of the battle of Stones River? I work in the guiding business in DC and can assure they haven't. Hardly anyone has. I would say most have heard of Gettysburg and Vicksburg.
People who study the Civil War, not the people whose only exposure to history is by watching TV and movies, have heard of Stone's River.
 
But you agree more people by far have heard of Gettysburg ,Vicksburg,Shiloh, Antietam and Bull Run than Stones River?
How about Rich Mountain, Iuka, Corinth?
Oh sure, I'll agree to that.....Only because Civil War History is not taught properly in schools, and because movies are watched by people claiming to "know" history.....I am glad for Parks like Stone's River, etc, that are there to enlighten those who really don't know history.....No offense, but to say "Most people don't know Stone's River" (in my opinion) was insulting to those who know history. Upon reflection, I believe that you didn't mean to insult everyone as much as you meant to point out the lack of knowledge by the general public. My apologies if I gave offense.
 
Oh sure, I'll agree to that.....Only because Civil War History is not taught properly in schools, and because movies are watched by people claiming to "know" history.....I am glad for Parks like Stone's River, etc, that are there to enlighten those who really don't know history.....No offense, but to say "Most people don't know Stone's River" (in my opinion) was insulting to those who know history. Upon reflection, I believe that you didn't mean to insult everyone as much as you meant to point out the lack of knowledge by the general public. My apologies if I gave offense.
No problem. I had never heard of any of those battles associated with Rosecrans until I stumbled upon his story.
 
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