Restricted Virginia taxpayers hit hard for cost of removing Confederate monuments

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rebforever

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
How much funding do you think would be appropriate for the City of New Orleans to allot for creating a monument to Cailloux, one for Dubuclet, one for the USCT from Louisiana?

Perhaps they should ask the Federal Government for $15 million for statues of black Civil War and Reconstruction heroes?
To be frank about, I really don't care. You the one complaining. I just thought I would give you an idea.
 

JerseyBart

Brigadier General
Moderator
Forum Host
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Location
New Jersey
In Portsmouth, Virginia, city Councilman Dr. Mark Whitaker has called on the city to solicit proposals to tear down a memorial to Virginians who served the Confederacy during the Civil War. The monument to the Confederate death is a prominent landmark in the downtown area of the city at the intersection of High and Court streets. The Norfolk Naval Yard is located in Portsmouth, which is part of the greater Hampton Roads metropolitan area in Norfolk County.

When Whitaker called for proposals on February 9, some of his colleagues said they would rather wait for a court decision on the monument. Whitaker said that this would not mean spelling out the payment for the monument’s removal but to merely determine the cost of the removal.

More: http://www.speroforum.com/a/ZJEGDEE...f-removing-Confederate-monuments#.VrzfL1IY1lS
It's like suing your own town or school. You'd better have a good reason or believe in your cause because the "savings" gets passed on to you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sbc

Rebforever

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Julian Bond was president of the NAACP in 1998. The Liberty Place Monument in New Orleans was moved to a warehouse in 1989 and in 1993, the City Council voted to keep it out of public sight and declared it a "nuisance." The school superintendent in my rural community removed the Confederate flag from flying above the public schools in the early 1970s.
Well good to see you are doing so well destroying the South. Whatca gonna do next?
 

cash

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Right here.
I wouldn't "force" people to do anything. All they need to do is change state law & then remove the perceived offending memorial.

Everything else, like the cost of removal, before the law is changed seems to be grand standing & attention seeking.

The state law certainly forces people to put up with a monument they believe is an insult to their community. Instead of local folks being in charge of what is honored in their town they have to get white people in Roanoke, Fairfax, and other places around the state to pass a new law to let them do that. As if black folks aren't capable of making decisions for their community.

What you dismiss as grandstanding is actually how things are supposed to work.
 

Horace Porter

First Sergeant
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Location
Absoltely Nowhere Now, MA
Sure Horace, they didn't use the phrase then but I quess it could apply. If that's your justification for removal of monuments then move to Virginia and ask a representative to vote to change the law & get ride of them.
I am free to express my opinion about the larger issue without having someone tell me to move somewhere. Guess the truth stung a bit. Maybe you should move around to defend these monuments. You may want to invest in a RV.
 

18thVirginia

Major
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Well my background is I can trace my ancestry back to Jamestown and the Mayflower and to the early Acadians. Which means I'm related to a hell of a lot of people in American history and probably a lot of you, given the mathematics of ancestry. My maternal grandmother was from Northern Ireland and I did spend some time as a kid in County Antrim. At least in Bonnie Belfast you know what neighborhood you're going into as a big mural telling you No Pope Here or Provisional IRA will warn you.

I guess the equivalent of that in the states is tagging. I certainly hope Bee you never had knives put your throat or razors as I have had with racial epithets attached or had family members assaulted and hospitalized. The part of being an adult is to be able to separate the sheep from the wolves and see the person first.

Yes people tear down other peoples monuments, the IRA blew up a statue of Lord Nelson years ago, and when Northern Ireland was separated from the Republic the Fenians quickly leveled the monument to the Battle of the Boyne and King Billy. My favorite statue is the one of Oscar Wilde in Dublin but I suppose some homophobes would not like it. However I think Oscar was the wittiest guy who ever lived next to Samuel Clements of course.

If you all remember Tulanes attempt to rename the dormitory that was built by the United Daughters of the Confederacy the judges ruled that they would have to pay the price for the construction of the dormitory in today's money. That's exactly what is going to happen with at least the Robert E Lee Monument since the land was transferred over, so at the very least are going to have to pay for the removal and relocation going to be very expensive.

Actually, the City of New Orleans has already gotten a price for the removal of the statues and a private individual has agreed to contribute the money. And no, the land was not transferred over as, according to Federal Judge Carl Barbier, that issue was litigated back in 1814 and the outcome was a decision that the City cannot give public land to a private entity.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
For all the sturm and drang on this forum, we should feel lucky we live in the states. In Dublin, Ireland, there was a grand statue of the English naval hero, Lord Nelson. One night it was dynamited, leading to possibly the greatest newspaper headline in Irish history: "British Admiral Leaves Dublin by Air."
 

jgoodguy

Banished Forever
-:- A Mime -:-
is a terrible thing...
Don’t feed the Mime
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
For all the sturm and drang on this forum, we should feel lucky we live in the states. In Dublin, Ireland, there was a grand statue of the English naval hero, Lord Nelson. One night it was dynamited, leading to possibly the greatest newspaper headline in Irish history: "British Admiral Leaves Dublin by Air."

RTÉ Television
But some republicans decided to take the law into their own hands and in the early hours of the morning of the 8th of March 1966 the top half of the Pillar was blown to pieces. The statue of Nelson came crashing to the ground. A taxi man driving by had a narrow escape. He survived but his car didn't!

The dramatic end to the Pillar was headline news and further cemented Nelson into city lore. The army was sent in to finish the job with a controlled explosion to demolish the remaining stump a few days later. Nelson's Pillar was no more with considerable damage caused to buildings in the immediate vacinity. Some people were arrested but nobody was ever charged with the bombing, and even though some regretted the Pillar's demise, the majority of Dubliners seemed happy that the one-eyed one-armed adulterer called Nelson had finally passed into history for once and for all.

Also
Nelson's Pillar
 

Mdiesel

First Sergeant
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Location
Maryland
I am free to express my opinion about the larger issue without having someone tell me to move somewhere. Guess the truth stung a bit. Maybe you should move around to defend these monuments. You may want to invest in a RV.

Stung? Not really. I'm not that invested. If they move the monuments I won't cry about it. But I won't rejoice either & act like the world is somehow a better place.

I like the RV idea though thanks :smile:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sbc

Andersonh1

Brigadier General
Moderator
Joined
Jan 12, 2016
Location
South Carolina
Both in the North and the South there was tremendous grief over the suffering and death of the war and everywhere there were statues put up honoring their fallen dead. Projecting on the other side the worst motives possible and basking in the perfection of the virtues of your particular views as a similar dynamic to ethnic prejudice. Of course it's the meat and bones of modern politics..

Exactly right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sbc

Mdiesel

First Sergeant
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Location
Maryland
The state law certainly forces people to put up with a monument they believe is an insult to their community. Instead of local folks being in charge of what is honored in their town they have to get white people in Roanoke, Fairfax, and other places around the state to pass a new law to let them do that. As if black folks aren't capable of making decisions for their community.

What you dismiss as grandstanding is actually how things are supposed to work.

So they need to change the law Cash. Then they can remove the monuments. If Roanoke would like another that's fine by me... BTW I doubt these monuments were originally placed in black neighborhoods. The demographics changed over the decades. At least I know that's what happened in Baltimore.
 

jgoodguy

Banished Forever
-:- A Mime -:-
is a terrible thing...
Don’t feed the Mime
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
So they need to change the law Cash. Then they can remove the monuments. If Roanoke would like another that's fine by me... BTW I doubt these monuments were originally placed in black neighborhoods. The demographics changed over the decades. At least I know that's what happened in Baltimore.

All such laws I have looked at to date have a process to bypass the law. As thing change politically, the ability to bypass gets easier.
 
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Well my background is I can trace my ancestry back to Jamestown and the Mayflower and to the early Acadians. Which means I'm related to a hell of a lot of people in American history and probably a lot of you, given the mathematics of ancestry. My maternal grandmother was from Northern Ireland and I did spend some time as a kid in County Antrim. At least in Bonnie Belfast you know what neighborhood you're going into as a big mural telling you No Pope Here or Provisional IRA will warn you.

I guess the equivalent of that in the states is tagging. I certainly hope Bee you never had knives put your throat or razors as I have had with racial epithets attached or had family members assaulted and hospitalized. The part of being an adult is to be able to separate the sheep from the wolves and see the person first.

Yes people tear down other peoples monuments, the IRA blew up a statue of Lord Nelson years ago, and when Northern Ireland was separated from the Republic the Fenians quickly leveled the monument to the Battle of the Boyne and King Billy. My favorite statue is the one of Oscar Wilde in Dublin but I suppose some homophobes would not like it. However I think Oscar was the wittiest guy who ever lived next to Samuel Clements of course.

If you all remember Tulanes attempt to rename the dormitory that was built by the United Daughters of the Confederacy the judges ruled that they would have to pay the price for the construction of the dormitory in today's money. That's exactly what is going to happen with at least the Robert E Lee Monument since the land was transferred over, so at the very least are going to have to pay for the removal and relocation going to be very expensive.

All my ancestors were still in Europe when the Civil War occurred, so you could say I have no dog in this fight, no cherished myths to protect from the harsh light of reality. However, even my recent ancestors whom I knew growing up carried some emotional scars from the discrimination they and their families experienced aimed at their religion and their ethnicity. So I can easily empathize with someone who has to pass by a stone monument every day portraying their ancestors' oppressors as heroes and extolling the virtue of the cause for which their oppressors fought. Such a monument would be a continual assault on my dignity and a constant reminder that I am a second class citizen in my own country. I would be especially angry if my children had to see such a piece of malevolent propaganda every day.

As for the misdirected black resentment at white privilege that you say that you and your family have suffered, that is unfortunate. But it is also totally irrelevant to the question of whether a monument should be removed. That kind of stuff is not edifying or enlightening and adds absolutely nothing to this discussion.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top