Video Discussion 59: Stonewall Jackson's Warhorse

Bumping Video Discussion tonight at 9:30 eastern/ 8:30 central.

Try to join in if you can!
 
transcript

Oct 23, 2017 9:27 PM - JerseyBart: Checking in.
Oct 23, 2017 9:27 PM - War Horse: Hi all
Oct 23, 2017 9:28 PM - SharonS: Hi to everyone.
Oct 23, 2017 9:28 PM - PeterT: Hi from me
Oct 23, 2017 9:28 PM - chellers: Hi Guys. Here as member, not mod.
Oct 23, 2017 9:28 PM - JerseyBart: Hi Sharon. Thank you for being here again.
Oct 23, 2017 9:29 PM - lelliott19: Hello everyone!
Oct 23, 2017 9:29 PM - MaryDee: I'm here! Hi,everyone!
Oct 23, 2017 9:29 PM - War Horse: Yes, SharonS, It's a pleasure!
Oct 23, 2017 9:30 PM - JerseyBart: Sharon, if it is okay with you, when we have the lecturer on hand, we let you lead and we follow, asking questions
Oct 23, 2017 9:30 PM - MaryDee: Definitely!
Oct 23, 2017 9:31 PM - SharonS: Not sure how to begin...
Oct 23, 2017 9:31 PM - JerseyBart: We'll begin. Fire away folks
Oct 23, 2017 9:32 PM - lelliott19: Oh wow! So excited that Sharon is here with us! So the little town that claims LS was foaled there....were there big breeding operations about town at the time?
Oct 23, 2017 9:34 PM - SharonS: The town was tiny as it is now, but the region was a center for the breeding of Narragansett Pacers, the now-extinct breed that LS probably was a member of. Little surefooted horses like him were in great demand in the mills and small farms of the state.
Oct 23, 2017 9:34 PM - MaryDee: More a comment--I got to ride a pacing horse for a few months, and she was unbelievably smooth to ride (I mostly rode her bareback).
Oct 23, 2017 9:34 PM - chellers: Why did they become extinct?
Oct 23, 2017 9:34 PM - War Horse: Well Little Sorrel has an interesting Yankee beginning, and an unusal background for a Confederate Ware Horse. What do you think, drew Jackson to him?
Oct 23, 2017 9:35 PM - lelliott19: Fascinating stuff. This extinct breed...NP's for short...are all pacing horses descended from this breed?
Oct 23, 2017 9:35 PM - PeterT: What is the difference between Narragansett Pacers and the pacers we see racing today?
Oct 23, 2017 9:36 PM - PeterT: ooops Laura asked a similar question
Oct 23, 2017 9:36 PM - SharonS: The story was that he picked two horses off a train at Harpers Ferry on May 10 1861, a big one for himself and a little one that he was goingto send back to his wife He ended up keeping both because the little one was so comfortable to ride.
Oct 23, 2017 9:36 PM - lelliott19: I like yours better. And chellers and War Horse's
Oct 23, 2017 9:37 PM - chellers: Why were they allowed to become extinct?
Oct 23, 2017 9:37 PM - SharonS: Naragansetts are among the many ancestors of the modern Standardbred, both trotters and pacers. LS himself was very fast and I think he may have actually raced in Ohio before being sold to ship east.
Oct 23, 2017 9:38 PM - JerseyBart: Why was sorrel considered a horse not fit for an officer?
Oct 23, 2017 9:38 PM - MaryDee: Fenimore Cooper's Last of the Mohicans has a Narragansett Pacer ridden by one of the ladies. Supposedly they were often used as ladies' horses because of the easy gait. Having tried to post the trot in a aidesaddle, I can see why!
Oct 23, 2017 9:38 PM - War Horse: Traveler had an interesting story as well, have you compared the two? If, I'm not mistaken, he was of Northern origin as well.
Oct 23, 2017 9:39 PM - SharonS: They became extinct because they were so useful and crossed so well with other breeds. Naragansett mares were the most useful to be bred to the original Justin Morgan and produced offspring that were a little bigger and more traditional in gait than themselves.
Oct 23, 2017 9:41 PM - chellers: Shame no effort was made to keep the breed viable.
Oct 23, 2017 9:41 PM - SharonS: I believe Traveller was primarily from bloodlines of English Thoroughbred by way of Virginia and North Carolina. There are a lot of stories about his origin, but he did seem to look like a T-bred of t he 19th century
Oct 23, 2017 9:41 PM - War Horse: So, they attempted to crossbread them which resulted in their extintion. They were looking to produce a superior version.
Oct 23, 2017 9:42 PM - MaryDee: I understand that at least in the North, as there were more and more good roads, women rode a lot less and used buggies more. That would reduce the demand for what was often considered a ladies' horse.
Oct 23, 2017 9:42 PM - lelliott19: So when Jackson picked LS off the train, he wouldnt have necessarily known he was a pacing horse? Unless they took him off and had him move about
Oct 23, 2017 9:42 PM - SharonS: By the way, sorrel was a perfectly acceptable color for an officer's mount. There are just more bays than chestnuts.
Oct 23, 2017 9:42 PM - JerseyBart: Why was sorrel seen as a horse that an officer should ride
Oct 23, 2017 9:43 PM - MaryDee: Many officers wanted big, showy horses.
Oct 23, 2017 9:44 PM - lelliott19: Yeah and LS wasnt big and surely not conformationally superior
Oct 23, 2017 9:44 PM - JerseyBart: Got it...I thought it could be show purposes or sorrel did things opposite of what officers needed
Oct 23, 2017 9:45 PM - War Horse: The two were a perfect match. Not much to look at, but packed an incredable punch. A match made in heaven.
Oct 23, 2017 9:45 PM - SharonS: Actually, an expert horseman could take a look at LS and see right away that he probably paced (today you would assume that you were looking at a so-called gaited horse). He had withers higher than the top of his hip and he had a sloping croup (that's the angle from the top of the hip to the root of the tail). He supposedly was picked by John Harman, whose family ran a stagecoach company .
Oct 23, 2017 9:45 PM - MaryDee: A big showy horse would allow his rider to show off. . . .
Oct 23, 2017 9:46 PM - SharonS: The fact that horse and rider were so similar was noted by a lot of memoirists and letter writers. Not much to look at but incomparable in battle.
Oct 23, 2017 9:47 PM - JerseyBart: Did sorrel sustain injuries from the attack on Jackson at Chancellorsville
Oct 23, 2017 9:48 PM - JerseyBart: Or wounds in general throughout the war
Oct 23, 2017 9:48 PM - MaryDee: I knew that Stonewall was considered a poor rider (by 19th cent. standards) but I didn't realize that this was because he rode the forward seat (a la gineta). I agree that he would probably have picked up this style in Mexico.
Oct 23, 2017 9:49 PM - War Horse: Makes sense, his lines are what I found to be the most interesting part of your presentation. Not being a horsemen, myself, I found the description, fascinating. I've always loved how people viewed they similarly. Unimpressive.
Oct 23, 2017 9:49 PM - SharonS: Back to color for a minute. The most sensible color for an officer's mount would be bay or chestnut because they would be harder for a sniper to aim at. Never mind Napoleo n on Marengo or Lee onTraveller
Oct 23, 2017 9:50 PM - MaryDee: Yes, a white or light gray horse would be quite visible at night!
Oct 23, 2017 9:51 PM - lelliott19: The forward seat makes it much easier on the horse - instead of carrying the rider's weight over the weaker parts, the weight is carried over the horse's normal center of gravity. Good thing since LS was small compared to TSJ.
 
Oct 23, 2017 at 9:51 PM - MaryDee: Bay and brown, with chestnut next, are the moset common horse colors
Oct 23, 2017 at 9:51 PM - SharonS: There are conflicting stories about wounds. I believe myself that LS may have been wounded slightly at second Manassas and was probably wounded at Chancellorsville. William Randolphs narrative describes him as being wounded in the neck. Some of the rest of Randolph is suspect, though.
Oct 23, 2017 at 9:53 PM - JerseyBart: Thank you
Oct 23, 2017 at 9:53 PM - War Horse: I heard that in your presentation. Makes sense, most artisits deplict the soldier on his favorite mount. Regardless wither the mount was present or not.
Oct 23, 2017 at 9:55 PM - lelliott19: I really enjoyed your presentation. You are a very engaging speaker. And I loved your powerpoint. Like Warhorse, I really enjoyed the equine lineage info. Where all have you presented so far?
Oct 23, 2017 at 9:55 PM - MaryDee: But it appears that in the case of Stonewall, the sculptors wanted him on a more spectacular horse.
Oct 23, 2017 at 9:56 PM - JerseyBart: Why the busy postwar career, even at a ripe old age?
Oct 23, 2017 at 9:57 PM - MaryDee: I learned a lot from your presentation, especially that LS was a pacer.
Oct 23, 2017 at 9:57 PM - SharonS: Artists, too. The Bendann painting shows a horse much more magnificent than LS. The Spring mural at the VA Historical Society does show Jackson aboard a cute little sorrel horse.
Oct 23, 2017 at 9:58 PM - SharonS: Little Sorrel was quite a popular figure in the south after the war. If Traveller had lived longer he might have been hauled around to appearances too. Victorians were extremely fond of horses ,
Oct 23, 2017 at 9:59 PM - lelliott19: Me too :D
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:00 PM - PeterT: Me three :D
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:00 PM - JerseyBart: I just want a
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:00 PM - SharonS: We must all be 150 years older than we think
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:00 PM - JerseyBart: Horse
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:00 PM - lelliott19: Where all have you presented Sharon? That was a big crowd.....were you nervous?
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:01 PM - lelliott19: If so, it certainly didnt show at all. Very engaging presentation!
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:01 PM - War Horse: Lol, from what I've read, Traveller was well traveled postmortem. LS, just had the opportunity to live longer.
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:02 PM - SharonS: I've mostly done Civil War Round Tables. I wasn't nervous because I worked for years in television news and everything that could possibly go wrong did at sometime duringthose years
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:02 PM - PeterT: I have a part-share in a thoroughbred racehorse JB. After his first start last week (last) you can have it!
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:02 PM - JerseyBart: Sorrel is stationary now...but still on display
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:03 PM - lelliott19: Ahhhh well you did a great job! Had me on the edge of my seat.....errr recliner
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:03 PM - SharonS: LS got some revenge of Jackson risking both of their lives so often by looking over enemy positions from high ground within artillery range. He outlived Jackson by 23 years.
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:03 PM - JerseyBart: I'll take it peter
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:04 PM - JerseyBart: Ultimate revenge!!!
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:05 PM - PeterT: Well the trainer said it was about education and he might only have 1 or 2 more starts before he goes back to the paddock, He might prefer wet tracks.
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:05 PM - lelliott19: What was the reaction of the people in LS's hometown when you questioned or asked for documentation that he was actually foaled there?
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:06 PM - SharonS: The most common reaction when I asked was "everybody knows its true." But a wonderful woman from the Congregational Church found some documentation in the basement archives of the church which, although it wasn;t absolute proof, led me to believe that the story was most likely true.
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:07 PM - lelliott19: Ha! The old "everybody knows" response. Good thing that nice lady was so helpful
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:09 PM - lelliott19: What is your next project?
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:10 PM - War Horse: I've found chruch archives to be very valuable. LS was a very interesting subject and well worth your time.
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:11 PM - SharonS: I actually had another book published last month. I edited and wrote the intros for it.;..it's Great American Horse Stories. I managed to include three Civil War stories.
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:12 PM - JerseyBart: That's fantastic
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:12 PM - PeterT: Was LS one of those stories Sharon?
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:12 PM - War Horse: And they were?
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:12 PM - lelliott19: Awesome! What horses and people are the three?
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:16 PM - SharonS: One of them was an 1869 short story "A Ride with a Mad Horse on Freight Car" (really). It's actually very good. Google it and you;ll find it on line. The others are non-fiction, "How Miss Lake's Circus Horses were Restored" and "His Love for his Old Gray Horse" (about Lee and Traveller.)
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:17 PM - PeterT: Excellent!
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:17 PM - War Horse: :smile:
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:18 PM - lelliott19: Sounds very interesting - esp the circus horse restoration. :giggle:
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:18 PM - JerseyBart: Let's say we call it a night. Thank you to Sharon for a great video and leading our discussion tonight.
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:19 PM - War Horse: Somehow, I knew Hero wasn't one of them :smile:
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:19 PM - chellers: Yes, thanks much, Sharon!
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:19 PM - lelliott19: Thank you for being with us Sharon. I cant tell you how much I appreciate your taking the time to answer all our Qs
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:19 PM - SharonS: Thanks everyone. It was great fun.
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:19 PM - MaryDee: Thank you Sharon!
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:19 PM - JerseyBart: Thanks for joining me tonight and I hope to see you next week.
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:19 PM - PeterT: Enjoyed that very much! Thanks to Sharon and JB for organising
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:19 PM - lelliott19: Thanks JB
Oct 23, 2017 at 10:19 PM - MaryDee: Also thank you to JB for finding this interesting topic!
 
Thank you @ami for providing the transcript again!!
I so enjoyed you all talking horses! I live in horse country, Hanoverian horses are beautiful and pretty well known, and you also have them in the United States:
https://hanoverian.org/what-is-a-hanoverian/
The horse shows at the State Stud in Celle are awesome, I was there for this years Stallion Parade just 3 weeks ago, as we live only 12 mi away. But as much as I love to see them everywhere around the village where I live, as little experience do I have in the saddle.

I learned so much from all of you, about LS, about horses in general and about Stonewall Jackson and his unassuming attitude.
Thank you so much that you let me eavesdrop from this side of the ocean, @SharonS , @JerseyBart , @lelliott19 , @chellers , @MaryDee , @War Horse and @PeterT
I'd so love to join you for the discussions, but that would be 3 am here ...
But reading the transcripts makes me almost feel like I was there!
 
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