Ammo Used Solid Rounds

[MikeyB]

The confederates were short of just about everything, would that include raw iron?

Did it ever make sense to scour the battlefield and have guys collect spent solid artillery rounds, melt them down and use them again or repurporse the iron?

 

[CivilWarTalk]

Interesting question, I imagine only if it was profitable for the scrap collector to find it and deliver it to the factory, but that would also mean dealing with a lot of unexploded ordnance...

Something tells me that the CSA didn't have money for that.

 

[Kurt G]

Not that I've heard of . There are a few issues. A solid shot might be buried in the ground where it couldn't be found, or a building or a tree .There are several still imbedded in buildings on various battlefields . Also , many battlefields were largely abandoned after the fighting . What small forces that were left behind may collect up arms , but most would be burying the dead . At Gettysburg thousands of arms and equipment were collected by the army because they were able to maintain a presence long after the battle . They also took custody of many arms picked up by civilians after the battle . There are accounts of desperate Confederate artillerymen using scrap metal as a substitute for canister .

 

[DaveBrt]

The confederates were short of just about everything, would that include raw iron?

Did it ever make sense to scour the battlefield and have guys collect spent solid artillery rounds, melt them down and use them again or repurporse the iron?

Yes, the Confederates paid civilians for useful military gear (rifle, scabbard, bayonet, etc) and for scrap metal. This was especially done after the earlier battles in Virginia. There are vouchers in National Archives/Fold3 Confederate Citizens File for the results. The citizens were usually those who lived in the area and, after the armies had destroyed their fields during the fight, needed some income -- a fact the Confederate leadership was aware of and willing to support. There are also reports of the results of this deep cleaning of the battlefields (which had usually already been quick-cleaned right after the battle).

There are newspaper accounts of enlisted men and boys, black and white, running to collect artillery shells -- especially those that had not exploded. The unexploded ones were paid for at a much higher rate than the scrap of exploded ones. Of course, the stories made big news with those who arrived before a slow fuze got to the bursting charge. These stories are, in my reading, from Petersburg, Charleston and Atlanta.

 

[UCVRelics]

Scrounging the battlefield was usable items was very big. Iron was in short supply even in the beginning of the war. Metal drives of all sorts we very the norm of the day. I have to agree that scrounging cannon balls would have been a logistical nightmare. Below is a call for iron from 1862.

 

[AUG]

I've posted a thread on that: https://civilwartalk.com/threads/confederate-troops-recycling-bullets-and-shells.118733/

A few accounts....

Pvt. Frank H. Foote, 48th Mississippi Infantry, during the siege of Petersburg:

"Shells flew overhead pretty thick, and afforded a source of revenue to the poor Confederate soldier, which in those hard times was indeed a God send; and that was gathering of iron fragments of bursted shells and the leaden balls that fell behind our lines in vast quantities and selling them to the junk dealers at Petersburg, who bought them up for the C.S. Government. It was no unwonted sight to see dozens of ragged Confederates digging, gouging, and gathering to themselves the precious fragments in heaps from the fields to our rear. Thousands of pounds of each were thus gotten, and disposed of at good figures; and the iron showers that bursted over-head proved a blessing in this respect; and brought sustenance to man, where it was intended to wreak destruction. The government had it worked over into shell and bullets which would be sent to us; and thus it returned to our foe to make death or be lost in the pines. The soldiers finally became so reckless that frequently orders had to be issued forbidding the men to gather the iron. I have seen dozens of soldiers racing after a huge mortar shell; they knew about where it would drop, and recklessly exposed themselves to secure the shell or its pieces. These shells would frequently not burst, and this was a prize eagerly striven for, as it realized about thirty dollars."​

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Pvt. Philip D. Stephenson, 5th Co. Washington Artillery, at Spanish Fort:

"Another recreation during the early part of the siege was to gather bullets and other forms of lead in the open space behind us. This lead was sent back to Mobile for remanufacture into cartridges and he who gathered a certain amount got a furlough of a day or so into the city. The soldiers did not hesitate to risk their lives while not in action roaming around in the exposed open space behind us gathering bullets. A furlough was a furlough."​

Maj. Gen. Samuel G. French during the Atlanta Campaign:

"28th. [August 28, 1864] I rode through the city [Atlanta]. To give you can idea of the terrible musketry fire, in an open field between their picket line and mine one brigade picked up about five thousand pounds of lead balls that had been fired on the lines. The ground was literally covered with them--oxidized white like hailstones. Trees three and four inches in diameter in front of my line were cut down by balls. The lead was sold to the ordnance officers, and the weight was thus known."​

 

[CivilWarTalk]

That's just craziness but if you need to win a war you do what you must I guess!

 

[Coonewah Creek]

Maj. Gen. Samuel G. French during the Atlanta Campaign:

"28th. [August 28, 1864] I rode through the city [Atlanta]. To give you can idea of the terrible musketry fire, in an open field between their picket line and mine one brigade picked up about five thousand pounds of lead balls that had been fired on the lines. The ground was literally covered with them--oxidized white like hailstones. Trees three and four inches in diameter in front of my line were cut down by balls. The lead was sold to the ordnance officers, and the weight was thus known."

During the height of the Atlanta fighting, Maj. General Thomas's Army of the Cumberland was said to have expended 200,000 rounds of rifle ammunition a day. Which really speaks to the fact that Sherman saw to it that his logistics were solidly in place while the Confederates had to recover the spent rounds for recasting.

 

[redbob]

Though a shortage of iron developed at Tredegar due to the loss of iron ore producing areas, by the time that the mines (iron, coal & limestone-the three materials necessary to produce iron) got into full production in Alabama by 1863, there were ample supplies of iron to feed the Selma Ordnance Works through a number of satellite iron smelting plants and to provide iron to the rolling mill at Shelby Springs where items such as the CSS Tennessee's armor was produced. Southern Ironworks, Photo by Tannehill Ironworks State Historical Park.

 

[Coonewah Creek]

Though a shortage of iron developed at Tredegar due to the loss of iron ore producing areas, by the time that the mines (iron, coal & limestone-the three materials necessary to produce iron) got into full production in Alabama by 1863, there were ample supplies of iron to feed the Selma Ordnance Works through a number of satellite iron smelting plants and to provide iron to the rolling mill at Shelby Springs where items such as the CSS Tennessee's armor was produced.

One of the biggest losses to the Confederates early in the war was the loss of the ironworks at Clarksville, TN, the second largest ironworks in the Confederacy at the time. After losing Forts Henry and Donelson, Clarksville could no longer be held and it fell, along with Nashville.

 

[redbob]

One of the biggest losses to the Confederates early in the war was the loss of the ironworks at Clarksville, TN, the second largest ironworks in the Confederacy at the time. After losing Forts Henry and Donelson, Clarksville could no longer be held and it fell, along with Nashville.

And at the other end of the state, the copper mines at Ducktown.

 

[redbob]

The confederates were short of just about everything, would that include raw iron?

Did it ever make sense to scour the battlefield and have guys collect spent solid artillery rounds, melt them down and use them again or repurporse the iron?

By the end of the War, the Confederacy was rewarding soldiers for collecting spent bullets for recycling and possibly the first major recycling project undertaken by the South was when Lee ordered the 6 pound bronze smoothbore cannon in the ANV to be sent back to Richmond to be melted down and recast as 12# Napoleons.

 

[johan_steele]

On at least one occasion Emory Upton returned some solid shot that had been sent towards his battery. His remark was that they apparently failed to appreciate the superior accuracy of his guns. when he was utilizing some arty rounds with questionable fuses he had his gunners treat them as solid shot and if the fuses worked all the better. Apparently skipping shells across the ground works as well as solid shot, especially if they detonate.

 

[LasPalmas]

I believe that during the seige of Vicksburg the Confederates returned some Parrott rifle shells to the Federals. This is, I think, stated in the ORs.

 

[redbob]

I believe that during the seige of Vicksburg the Confederates returned some Parrott rifle shells to the Federals. This is, I think, stated in the ORs.

The problem is, round shot have a certain amount of space between the tube and the round called windage and unless the round is misshapen it should go down the tube. Rifled rounds by their design often have they sabots somewhat or quite a bit distorted by them "taking" the rifling, making them difficult to reuse.

 

[LasPalmas]

The problem is, round shot have a certain amount of space between the tube and the round called windage and unless the round is misshapen it should go down the tube. Rifled rounds by their design often have they sabots somewhat or quite a bit distorted by them "taking" the rifling, making them difficult to reuse.

Major [H. M.] Mathews, ordnance officer, was instructed to have the large number of unexploded Parrott shells scattered around the city sent to Paxton's foundry and recapped. ORA Volume 24 Part 1 page 277