US 1863 Type II Musket Unrecognized rear sight blade

cannonball59

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Nov 29, 2020
I recently acquired this musket. While I am more of a beginner, I do not recognize the rear sight. I have seen the 3 blade type where the 2 longer ones are stamped with a 3 and 5. I have seen the 2 blade style withe the longer having a hole and above, a V notch. I may have my terminology incorrect, please correct me if so.

The one I have is unfamiliar. It has a flat top blade with a hole in the middle and another with a V notch and 2 holes below it. Those holes are side by side and of different diameter and neither is centered below the V notch. Does anyone have any ideas? What would the range be for each sight? See pictures below.

Also, the blade moves pretty well to the V notch up position but it is very stiff heading in the flat top up position and back down. Is the screw too tight or is there a sight blade issue? I really don't want to remove the screw as I don't want to strip it.

Thanks

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Looks like a replacement. The holes are peep sights for target shooting. I think the N-SSA guys do it.
Yes, the folks shooting these longarms have a adjustable sight device that clamps onto the base of the sight, and once you have zeroed in that sight, you reinstall the sight leaf, mark it to match the adjustable sight's point, and drill the rear sight. I don't know why there are two holes side by side on the one leaf - maybe different loads shot differently for this fellow?

In any event, this is a modern made leaf, and not an original. The later Model 1863 Springfields Type II dated 1864 and 1865 did have a hole drilled into the longest leaf, but this is not a long leaf on yours
 
I had a feeling this was something more recently made. That is probably why the raising and lowering of the single peep with flat top edge is stiff. Probably just a little too wide on that half.

Does the side sight screw normally come out fairly easy or is it likely to be a problem?

With an original sight, would the ranges be 100, 300 and 500 yards?

If the above info is correct:

Would my sight likely be: single peep 75 yards, side by side peep 100 yards and V notch 200 yards?

I have enclosed 2 pictures of sights. Would either be correct but the 2nd be more likely correct? Mine is dated 1864.

Thanks

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The rear sights on your rifle musket are modern reproduction sights which were set up for competitive shooting in the North-South Skirmish Association. The hole [peep sight] on one leaf is set up for the shooter's target load, whatever that may have been, at 50 yards, and the other is set up for 100 yards. The offset of the two larger holes from the center line of the barrel corrects for windage. You don't show it, but I suspect that the front sight was also widened, raised in height, or both, since the original sights are not calibrated for target shooting at the distances at which N-SSA matches are shot and original sights are not adjustable.

Regards,
Don Dixon
 
Here are some pictures of the front sight. Can you tell if it is not original?

Its not original.

You never specified if the rifle musket was an original weapon or a reproduction. In either case, the barrel has been dovetailed for the front sight. In original and most reproduction weapons the front sight was soldered, brazed, or forged onto the barrel. Dovetailing is used by competitive shooters to adjust for windage. After the windage is adjusted by moving the sight left or right in the dovetail the wings on the sight are filed off flush with the barrel giving an original profile, but you can still see the shape of the dovetail.

The sight has the shape of an original sight, but I can't tell about the height. Try the appropriate bayonet on it. If the sight is too tall for the bayonet to fit, then you know that the competitor used a taller sight.

Regards,
Don Dixon
 
Thank you.

I mentioned this was a 1863 Type II. This is an original musket. Based on what you are saying, original or reproduction needs to be mentioned. The barrel is marked with 1864 and the inspector's stamp. All other parts are correct and original minus the sights.

I have an original bayonet and it fits perfectly. Based on what you are saying, it sounds like the front sight is the correct height. So based on that, I would just want to look for an original, rear sight to make this function like it was originally built. Would this be correct?

I have looked at original muskets and it was clear the front sights were sometimes not centered. I would assume this was a problem that occurred regularly during production. Mine looks centered so is it safe to assume with the information we have that mine was adjusted for windage?

I have a trapdoor that appears to be all original. I believe that I had an original bayonet from another source but it would not attach as the front sight is too tall. The slots looked correct but fitting over the front sight was the issue. So I guess it is safe to assume the front sight was replaced at some point. So I do know what you are talking about with regards to bayonet fitting and front sight height.
 
Based on what you are saying, it sounds like the front sight is the correct height. So based on that, I would just want to look for an original, rear sight to make this function like it was originally built. Would this be correct?

I have looked at original muskets and it was clear the front sights were sometimes not centered. I would assume this was a problem that occurred regularly during production. Mine looks centered so is it safe to assume with the information we have that mine was adjusted for windage?

Question 1: Yes

Question 2: The advantage of adjustable sights on military weapons is that you can move them to compensate for manufacturing variations, which are common in any form of production. Springfield and Enfield rifle muskets had no means of adjusting for variations. Despite the dovetailed front sight, the prior owner drilled two offset holes in the rear sight. So, I would not necessarily assume that dovetailing the front sight resolved his problem, or that your load would shoot where his did. All you can do is put your new rear sight on it, load it up with a favorite load, shoot it, and see where the shots go.

When the N-SSA was founded and for some years after, these guns weren't worth very much and there was little reason not to fool with the sights on them if they weren't minty. There was also the problem of relearning the technology so that you could shoot them well.

Regards,
Don Dixon
 
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Sounds logical, informative and complete. I have multiple military rifles from both world wars and I know the sighting issues that can and do arise and how correcting them is much easier than something this old. But the old technology is what makes it a challenge and interesting and helps one understand what it was like "back then." Thank you!
 
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