Irishtom29
2nd Lieutenant
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2008
- Location
- Wheaton Illinois
I think the guy was in the Red Army.
Dah!I think the guy was in the Red Army.
View attachment 346970
The reference I cited, which is comprehensive, has every hat issued 1855-1902. Perhaps you will be kind enough to cite the page for the fur hat you refer to so that I can read the citation you are referring to.The hat in the OP is not a muskrat hat, but a combination dragoon helmet with ear flaps. The basic helmet portion of the headgear does not have the telltale longer fur and there is also a band that encircles the cap with the front coming to a pointed apex similar to the 1851 shako. I would imagine the hat band matches the facing of the "uniform" shirt.
Most likely a militia uniform, as dress headgear ran the gamut for various units. The belt, pistol and buckle are of Civil War and earlier vintage.
Also going to the LOC site and blowing up the original, you can see a type of plume in the rear of the cap. The flaps have been sewn independently which was not done on either the seal or muskrat caps.
You know, in 1972 my brother & I visited Gettysburg. We had an image floated using three 1851 Navy Colt photographer's props. Maybe this image is from the 1970's, as well.I lived in SD too! The front of the hat in the OP doesn't look like the front of the issue hat. The way it folds right in front is just not at all the same. I'm still voting for a civilian hat. Also, look at the revolver and knife; they're of a style for 1861. Even if they're photographer's props, they're still early 1860s, and the style of the photo is early 1860s, not necessarily post-war.
1) I never said that the hat was an issue piece of headgear, in fact I said it was most likely militia like the rest of his uniform.The reference I cited, which is comprehensive, has every hat issued 1855-1902. Perhaps you will be kind enough to cite the page for the fur hat you refer to so that I can read the citation you are referring to.
The hat looks like a helmet to me and the band most likely mimics the M1851 shako band. Blowing up the picture gives you a feel for the construction and there appears to be a horsehair plume in the rear.@ Irishtom29: the funny thing about the ushanka is that it has ear flaps, so it covers your "ushi" - your ears. The word literally means "ear cap." I know you're just kidding, but the body construction of an ushanka is different than either of the other 2 hats being discussed. Although the ear flaps are sewn to the bottom of the hat body in a similar way as the OP.
@ Rhea Cole: Now, I'm just curious. Did you strike lucky pay dirt in mentioning Gettysburg, or did you do a quick post search and discover I lived there, too? If so, dude, that is a little creepy...
@ Package4: Pursuing the dragoon helmet idea. I wondered if the dark band across the front of the OP hat is a turban, or is in imitation of a turban like you find on helmets. So is the hat body, in your opinion, hard or soft? Is the front peak part of the body, or like a false front plate? I'm not sold on your idea either, but it's worth pursuing.
Of course, we could all be wrong and this young man might be dressed as a guerilla for a theatrical, for all we know, although I'm not really inclined to that position because he doesn't look corny enough.
When you blow it up, the dark band does seem to be added, doesn't it? And the front seems to be a slightly different color than the area at the top behind it. There looks to be a seam on his forehead. Do you think the front plate was applied, and is there a lining? Are there earflaps on either side, and a fur piece applied down the middle, like a real cheap crest? I'm starting to feel like I want one of these hats, now, even if I don't know what it is...
paging @Ralph Heinz does this look like a muskrat hat to you?View attachment 239972
- Title: [Unidentified soldier in Union uniform, U.S. cavalry belt, and fur hat bearing number 1, with Bowie knife and revolver]
- Date Created/Published: [between 1861 and 1865]
- Medium: 1 photograph : sixth-plate tintype, hand-colored ; 9.4 x 8.4 cm (case)
Source.
Looking at it again, I don't even think the flaps are for the ears, but decorative, if the flaps were lowered they would extend below his chin and the rough side out...…...When you blow it up, the dark band does seem to be added, doesn't it? And the front seems to be a slightly different color than the area at the top behind it. There looks to be a seam on his forehead. Do you think the front plate was applied, and is there a lining? Are there earflaps on either side, and a fur piece applied down the middle, like a real cheap crest? I'm starting to feel like I want one of these hats, now, even if I don't know what it is...
Actually, it is an ambrotype. Same era cited-different photographic process.9) The picture, I believe is a daguerreotype, which dates it to the 1850s & 60s not the 70s
If you will refer to the citation I included in the post, you will see the 1867 design muskrat hat. There is a company I symbol right where it ought to be. Everything about the hat is jut right. There is every reason to conclude that the image is circa 1870 rather than Civil War.
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View attachment 346923
7th Cavalry at Wounded Knee wearing their muskrat hats.
There are I don't know how many images there are of Indian War soldiers wearing muskrat hats. I have never seen a single image of a muskrat hat pre-1867. If anybody has one, please send it my way.
View attachment 346926
9th Cavalry Co. K, notice the buffalo boots & mittens issued along with the muskrat hats.
I understand that folks on this forum are understandably focused on Civil War imagery. I am not. Goffy looking portraits using photographer's props are ubiquitous throughout the late 1800's. I have probably seen a thousand of them. For most of my adult life, I was a commercial artist. Searching photo archives pre-internet was a real slog, believe you me. Finding the best image or illustration or source for creating an illustration is what I did for a living. So, I take a broad professional interest in imagery.
Since they have been painted, it would be next to impossibleI love those fake Rev War militia uniforms! They're so farby! The guys wearing them in period photos seem to know that they look silly.
Can anyone make out any detail on the buttons on the OP battleshirt?
Why did I not think of that?Since they have been painted, it would be next to impossible