- Joined
- Dec 21, 2015
Chernow's book goes into it fairly well.
I have a mental block in recommending the Chernow book However, he does a fine job of covering the grant presidency.
Chernow's book goes into it fairly well.
Charles Sumner? You mean the guy that did everything he could to provoke a civil war and then went to the Senate to the same tactics on President Grant? That guy? And his protege Henry Adams? Sumner, the guy that thought Britain should cede Canada to the US and pay $2.5B because they screwed up and a couple of commerce raiders escape Liverpool?
Frankly a guy that makes bombastic inflammatory speeches and the criticizes the people who have clean up the mess he made is not worth your adoration.
This thread makes me despair of CWT, it is that bad.
This thread makes me despair of CWT, it is that bad.
Charles Sumner? You mean the guy that did everything he could to provoke a civil war and then went to the Senate to the same tactics on President Grant? That guy? And his protege Henry Adams? Sumner, the guy that thought Britain should cede Canada to the US and pay $2.5B because they screwed up and a couple of commerce raiders escape Liverpool?
Frankly a guy that makes bombastic inflammatory speeches and the criticizes the people who have clean up the mess he made is not worth your adoration.
Nahh. Someone posting about what how great a human being was Charles Sumner is good for laughs.Unlike the United States under the US Constitution, you're free to secede at any time from any thread you wish.
First, Grant was a slave owner. Really, or did work with his father-in-law's slaves? Did he actually prefer working with paid labor, and was accused of paying too much?Now tell us how you really feel.
All of my threads are meant as a learning experience for me, and hopefully others. The rancor is kept to a low roar, sources are plentiful, and questions are answered to the best of my ability.
Mi dispiace if this is not meeting with your expectations.
First, Grant freed one slave. Did he the slave, or was he doing a favor for abolitionists who just wanted to free the person and needed a Missouri resident to sign the manumission document?
There is no way on knowing.
I think the case is that he gave up on slavery and moved to Illinois, but that he did try to find jobs for the slaves that had been loaned to his wife, Julia.
Julia definitely had a nurse who was an enslaved person. But by 1863 that person was self emancipated and got married.
Charles Sumner: too right, too soon. Prematurely correct.Guess we will have to agree to disagree about Sumner.
He was a passionate believer in abolition and and equal rights for freedman. He didn't want war, but he didn't shy away from it when it came.
He thought the Domincan Republic acquisition an ill-considered imperialist adventure that had been inspired by Grant's corrupt cronies. He seems to have been correct about the latter.
In the recent American Experience about Garfield, it was suggested that Garfield would have championed black civil rights. But that of course is unknowable.One thing we ought to bear in mind when comparing Grant to more recent presidents is that the role has markedly changed. The Chief Executive in Grant's time was not expected to take the active leadership role in the same ways we expect our presidents today.
We ought to compare him to others who held office in that same environment. Was he a better 'civil rights president' than his predecessor, Andrew Johnson? His successors Hayes? Garfield? Arthur? Cleveland?
In the recent American Experience about Garfield, it was suggested that Garfield would have championed black civil rights. But that of course is unknowable.
A Grant Quote:
Caste has no foothold in Santo Domingo. It is capable of supporting the entire colored population of the United States, should it choose to emigrate. The present difficulty, in bringing all parts of the United States to a happy unity and love of country grows out of the prejudice to color. The prejudice is a senseless one, but it exists. The colored man cannot be spared until his place is supplied, but with a refuge like San Domingo his worth here would soon be discovered, and he would soon receive such recognition to induce him to stay; or if Providence designed that the two races should not live to-gether he would find his home in the Antilles.