Tooooo Many 50th PA Photo Snips, With Questions For Experts, Please?

JPK Huson 1863

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#1
Sincere questions!
pa 50th LOC.JPG

pa 50th 5.JPG


Been meaning to ask for awhile and chicken out every time. There are three regimental photos of Lincoln's " Old Reliable ", the 50th Pennsylvania, 2 from November, 1863, at Gettysburg. One is Beaufort, on dress parade. If I get a little off track in this thread, please excuse? It's the 50th PA plus era photos plus a grgrgrandparent in the 50th- plus Gettysburg. Distractability quotient, 1 million and 8.

pa 50th 6.JPG

I think this may have been their first attempt? In the second, troops do not meander out of sight, to the left.

pa 50th gb second.JPG

See? AND, something I never noticed ( you'll see ), LADIES in camp!! Yep. 50th PA Ladies, in two areas, too. Using the giant ' tif ' file on LoC, they became very clear.

LoC describes the 50th PA as Ike Steven's regiment- look up General Ike, Ladies. Good Heavens. I've never once in my life ascribed to the feminine habit we're held to be fond of- fan clubs where celebrity men are dreamy. General Stevens? Ate 58 year old words of a lifetime. Giggle. He was lost however, and Rest in much Peace- another casualty, a bullet to the temple and another young grave.
pa 50th ike s.JPG


Sorry- became distracted! Questions are, how do regiments line up, please? Is it right-to-left, A through-H, or Left to Right? How many men in a front row and why, please?

It is not at all likely we ( family ) will be able to see my grgrgrandfather in any of these. His name was Harrison ( Harry! ) Walton, Co. A. Knowing around where he'd have been standing is just a kick- and something we've been trying to ascertain for years. No clue!

From November's Gettysburg photos, first photo.
pa 50th 7.JPG

Troops seem to trail down into the woods, guessing a lot of heads are lost to sight?
pa 50th 8.JPG

Far right, inclusive of ladies seated in the middle.

pa 50th 9.JPG
Closer! It's amazing, some long distance photo permits us to get this close! Really would like to know where Company A would have lined up, and then where the ' W's ' would have been.

pa 50th 10.JPG

Far, far right ( their left ). Just the details is worth these snips regardless if I find an answer.

pa 50th 12.JPG

Center, Color Guard

pa 50th 13.JPG


pa 50th bft1.JPG
pa 50th bft2.JPG
pa 50th bft3.JPG

3 Beaufort photo snips, very cool all by themselves. These are Schuylkill County men- Pottsville, Tamaqua, West Penn, Schuylkill Haven., ' boatmen', miners, farmers and craftsmen. Not many days before they saved their transport from foundering in a storm, rounding Hatteras. Back to the script- lined up on parade, left to right, by company or right to left? Then alphabetically? Walton, Harry, Company A. ? Which burnished row of steel, please?

pa 50th 14.JPG

The 50th Pennsylvania's second try at a regimental photo, Gettysburg, November, 1863. In this photo they seem to have centered the troops and added officers' horses. The ladies did not move. Although I get lost in these images from Time, the same question goes unanswered for me. Which dot, representing a troop in the 50th PA, is my grgrgrandfather?

pa 50th 15.JPG

Same middle groupings, horses and grooms added. Troops formerly trailing down the rise, to the left have been given a troop-lift.

Much appreciated, bearing with me, if anyone has an answer? I realize my tendency to become terribly distracted makes it a tough hike through a thread at times. Hopefully the same things distracting me will make it not so annoying to get this far. Basically, Where in blazes is Waldo?
 

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#2
Sincere questions!
View attachment 124376
View attachment 124370

Been meaning to ask for awhile and chicken out every time. There are three regimental photos of Lincoln's " Old Reliable ", the 50th Pennsylvania, 2 from November, 1863, at Gettysburg. One is Beaufort, on dress parade. If I get a little off track in this thread, please excuse? It's the 50th PA plus era photos plus a grgrgrandparent in the 50th- plus Gettysburg. Distractability quotient, 1 million and 8.

View attachment 124371
I think this may have been their first attempt? In the second, troops do not meander out of sight, to the left.

View attachment 124372
See? AND, something I never noticed ( you'll see ), LADIES in camp!! Yep. 50th PA Ladies, in two areas, too. Using the giant ' tif ' file on LoC, they became very clear.

LoC describes the 50th PA as Ike Steven's regiment- look up General Ike, Ladies. Good Heavens. I've never once in my life ascribed to the feminine habit we're held to be fond of- fan clubs where celebrity men are dreamy. General Stevens? Ate 58 year old words of a lifetime. Giggle. He was lost however, and Rest in much Peace- another casualty, a bullet to the temple and another young grave.
View attachment 124373

Sorry- became distracted! Questions are, how do regiments line up, please? Is it right-to-left, A through-H, or Left to Right? How many men in a front row and why, please?

It is not at all likely we ( family ) will be able to see my grgrgrandfather in any of these. His name was Harrison ( Harry! ) Walton, Co. A. Knowing around where he'd have been standing is just a kick- and something we've been trying to ascertain for years. No clue!

From November's Gettysburg photos, first photo.
View attachment 124377
Troops seem to trail down into the woods, guessing a lot of heads are lost to sight?
View attachment 124378
Far right, inclusive of ladies seated in the middle.

View attachment 124379 Closer! It's amazing, some long distance photo permits us to get this close! Really would like to know where Company A would have lined up, and then where the ' W's ' would have been.

View attachment 124380
Far, far right ( their left ). Just the details is worth these snips regardless if I find an answer.

View attachment 124382
Center, Color Guard

View attachment 124383

View attachment 124388 View attachment 124389 View attachment 124390
3 Beaufort photo snips, very cool all by themselves. These are Schuylkill County men- Pottsville, Tamaqua, West Penn, Schuylkill Haven., ' boatmen', miners, farmers and craftsmen. Not many days before they saved their transport from foundering in a storm, rounding Hatteras. Back to the script- lined up on parade, left to right, by company or right to left? Then alphabetically? Walton, Harry, Company A. ? Which burnished row of steel, please?

View attachment 124391
The 50th Pennsylvania's second try at a regimental photo, Gettysburg, November, 1863. In this photo they seem to have centered the troops and added officers' horses. The ladies did not move. Although I get lost in these images from Time, the same question goes unanswered for me. Which dot, representing a troop in the 50th PA, is my grgrgrandfather?

View attachment 124392
Same middle groupings, horses and grooms added. Troops formerly trailing down the rise, to the left have been given a troop-lift.

Much appreciated, bearing with me, if anyone has an answer? I realize my tendency to become terribly distracted makes it a tough hike through a thread at times. Hopefully the same things distracting me will make it not so annoying to get this far. Basically, Where in blazes is Waldo?
Wow, what great photos and detail, thank you for sharing, as to your question, typically companies of a regiment were lined up according to the seniority of their captain and not company letter. A regiment usually had ten companies and the senior most captain would have his company posted to the right and the next senior would be posted all the way to the left. The regiment would go something like this:

First, sixth, fourth, ninth, third, eighth, fifth, tenth , seventh, second. This according to War Department Order dated August 11, 1862 from Edwin Stanton. The way you can find Company A would be to go through the seniority of the captains when the pictures were taken.

What is really great is the detail of the company on the right, (left, looking at the regiment), they have M1855 rifle muskets that can be dated as being produced from late 1859-61 time period, based upon the patchbox seen on the stock.

What great pics!
 
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#3
The Gettysburg pictures are from July of 1865 when they were ordered to represent the Union Army at the National Monument cornerstone ceremony. The search for seniority in those pictures would thus entail the captains in command when the regiment was mustered out days later.

"At Petersburg it was in support of the troops that made the assault after the mine explosion; joined in the
engagement at the Weldon railroad, and in the final assault on the city, April 2, 1865. About the middle of April it
proceeded to Washington and remained there until June 30, when it was ordered to Gettysburg to represent the infantry of the Union army at the corner stone ceremonies of the National Monument, July 4, and returned to camp at Georgetown, where it was mustered out on July 31, 1865."

Source: The Union Army, vol. 1
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
3,105
#4
Sincere questions!
View attachment 124376
View attachment 124370

Been meaning to ask for awhile and chicken out every time. There are three regimental photos of Lincoln's " Old Reliable ", the 50th Pennsylvania, 2 from November, 1863, at Gettysburg. One is Beaufort, on dress parade. If I get a little off track in this thread, please excuse? It's the 50th PA plus era photos plus a grgrgrandparent in the 50th- plus Gettysburg. Distractability quotient, 1 million and 8.

View attachment 124371
I think this may have been their first attempt? In the second, troops do not meander out of sight, to the left.

View attachment 124372
See? AND, something I never noticed ( you'll see ), LADIES in camp!! Yep. 50th PA Ladies, in two areas, too. Using the giant ' tif ' file on LoC, they became very clear.

LoC describes the 50th PA as Ike Steven's regiment- look up General Ike, Ladies. Good Heavens. I've never once in my life ascribed to the feminine habit we're held to be fond of- fan clubs where celebrity men are dreamy. General Stevens? Ate 58 year old words of a lifetime. Giggle. He was lost however, and Rest in much Peace- another casualty, a bullet to the temple and another young grave.
View attachment 124373

Sorry- became distracted! Questions are, how do regiments line up, please? Is it right-to-left, A through-H, or Left to Right? How many men in a front row and why, please?

It is not at all likely we ( family ) will be able to see my grgrgrandfather in any of these. His name was Harrison ( Harry! ) Walton, Co. A. Knowing around where he'd have been standing is just a kick- and something we've been trying to ascertain for years. No clue!

From November's Gettysburg photos, first photo.
View attachment 124377
Troops seem to trail down into the woods, guessing a lot of heads are lost to sight?
View attachment 124378
Far right, inclusive of ladies seated in the middle.

View attachment 124379 Closer! It's amazing, some long distance photo permits us to get this close! Really would like to know where Company A would have lined up, and then where the ' W's ' would have been.

View attachment 124380
Far, far right ( their left ). Just the details is worth these snips regardless if I find an answer.

View attachment 124382
Center, Color Guard

View attachment 124383

View attachment 124388 View attachment 124389 View attachment 124390
3 Beaufort photo snips, very cool all by themselves. These are Schuylkill County men- Pottsville, Tamaqua, West Penn, Schuylkill Haven., ' boatmen', miners, farmers and craftsmen. Not many days before they saved their transport from foundering in a storm, rounding Hatteras. Back to the script- lined up on parade, left to right, by company or right to left? Then alphabetically? Walton, Harry, Company A. ? Which burnished row of steel, please?

View attachment 124391
The 50th Pennsylvania's second try at a regimental photo, Gettysburg, November, 1863. In this photo they seem to have centered the troops and added officers' horses. The ladies did not move. Although I get lost in these images from Time, the same question goes unanswered for me. Which dot, representing a troop in the 50th PA, is my grgrgrandfather?

View attachment 124392
Same middle groupings, horses and grooms added. Troops formerly trailing down the rise, to the left have been given a troop-lift.

Much appreciated, bearing with me, if anyone has an answer? I realize my tendency to become terribly distracted makes it a tough hike through a thread at times. Hopefully the same things distracting me will make it not so annoying to get this far. Basically, Where in blazes is Waldo?
There is a good chance he was not in the picture, since he did not muster out with the regiment, maybe because of his wounds the year before?

Harrison Walton
Residence was not listed;
Enlisted on 12/6/1862 as a Private.

On 12/6/1862 he mustered into "A" Co. PA 50th Infantry
(date and method of discharge not given)
(Absent at muster-out)

He was listed as:
* Absent at muster-out (date and place not stated)
* Wounded 5/12/1864 Spotsylvania Court House, VA

Sources used by Historical Data Systems, Inc.:

- History of Pennsylvania Volunteers, 1861-1865
(c) Historical Data Systems, Inc. @ www.civilwardata.com
 
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Messages
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#5
Looks like mystery solved, after his wounding he was assigned to the 21st Veteran Reserve Corps, so he would not have been in the Gettysburg pictures.

Walton , Harrison
Battle Unit Name: 21st Regiment, Veteran Reserve Corps
Side:Union
Company:H
Soldier's Rank In:
Private
Soldier's Rank Out:
Private
Alternate name:
Film Number:
M636 ROLL 42
Plaque Number:
Notes: General Note - See also 50 Pa.Vols
 

JPK Huson 1863

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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Joined
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Messages
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#6
Looks like mystery solved, after his wounding he was assigned to the 21st Veteran Reserve Corps, so he would not have been in the Gettysburg pictures.

Walton , Harrison
Battle Unit Name: 21st Regiment, Veteran Reserve Corps
Side:Union
Company:H
Soldier's Rank In:
Private
Soldier's Rank Out:
Private
Alternate name:
Film Number:
M636 ROLL 42
Plaque Number:
Notes: General Note - See also 50 Pa.Vols
Ah! Thank you SO much!!! Yes, he was not present at muster out, we got an inkling he just, plain went home ( the ' wound ' thing is erroneous, and my fault for saying something 20 years ago, which ended up in records I now cannot get rid of ) -here is something hysterical however. The man talked himself BACK into the 50th, from the 21st VRC, for the rest of the war. He was fairly disabled so NO idea how he managed it. Well, some idea. You'd have to have met his grandson, my grandfather. Grandpop not only took one look at the coal mines, as a breaker boy, said er, no thanks and hounded the local sign painter into taking him on as apprentice, once ' borrowed ' an entire train. Drove it from stop to stop, got everyone extremely excited, explained he merely wished to see if he could drive a train ( answer was yes, indeed ) and did not get arrested. Guessing Harrison arrived back at the 50th PA via this genetic gift.

Thanks so much for taking this kind of time! AND for correcting when the 50th was at Gettysburg- we were told via a relative ( only ) it was 1863, so always just accepted that. Still, very oddly have yet another grgrgrandfather in the 50th just in 1865, arriving there for HIS last few months of the war. Crazy, yes. He'd been in the 6th US Cavalry- mustered out, for whatever reason decided it was not time to go home. His brothers were with the 50th PA. He's George Knarr, and rats, cannot remember which brothers were there- Ben, I think and Ike? He must have decided to just keep them company until the end of the war, too funny! You'd have thought he'd have had enough.

Love details myself but am not at all very good with makes and models of guns, etc., so that's all very awesome to have- very cool! The LoC option, being able to download these at such high res and so HUGE, is a little breath taking, isn't it?
 

Tom Elmore

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#7
Some regiments evidently did not move their companies around based on seniority. For example, Charles H. Weygant, in his History of the One Hundred and Twenty Fourth Regiment N. Y. S. V., lists the alignment of his regiment at Gettysburg in the original order: B – G – K – E – H – C – I – D – F – A.

Also, the three right companies of the 150th Pennsylvania on July 1 were D – F – A, which, statistically speaking, would favor the original alignment.

I am actually compiling such a list and thus far have 14 examples (usually partial) of Union regiments at Gettysburg. The above two examples are in the definite and probable categories respectively of following the original alignment. Add to this one other probable and two possibles, which accounts for 5 of the 14.

But the other 9, a substantial majority, are clearly in a different order; for instance:
69th Pennsylvania: G – K – B – E – C – H – D – F – A – I (markers on the field)
20th Maine: B – G – C – H – A – F – D – K – I – E (per John S. Pullen)
 
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#10
Some regiments evidently did not move their companies around based on seniority. For example, Charles H. Weygant, in his History of the One Hundred and Twenty Fourth Regiment N. Y. S. V., lists the alignment of his regiment at Gettysburg in the original order: B – G – K – E – H – C – I – D – F – A.

Also, the three right companies of the 150th Pennsylvania on July 1 were D – F – A, which, statistically speaking, would favor the original alignment.

I am actually compiling such a list and thus far have 14 examples (usually partial) of Union regiments at Gettysburg. The above two examples are in the definite and probable categories respectively of following the original alignment. Add to this one other probable and two possibles, which accounts for 5 of the 14.

But the other 9, a substantial majority, are clearly in a different order; for instance:
69th Pennsylvania: G – K – B – E – C – H – D – F – A – I (markers on the field)
20th Maine: B – G – C – H – A – F – D – K – I – E (per John S. Pullen)
I suspect that when a company commander left the regiment via casualty or promotion the company in a veteran regiment might keep its place in line, interesting research you are doing!
 
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#11
Ah! Thank you SO much!!! Yes, he was not present at muster out, we got an inkling he just, plain went home ( the ' wound ' thing is erroneous, and my fault for saying something 20 years ago, which ended up in records I now cannot get rid of ) -here is something hysterical however. The man talked himself BACK into the 50th, from the 21st VRC, for the rest of the war. He was fairly disabled so NO idea how he managed it. Well, some idea. You'd have to have met his grandson, my grandfather. Grandpop not only took one look at the coal mines, as a breaker boy, said er, no thanks and hounded the local sign painter into taking him on as apprentice, once ' borrowed ' an entire train. Drove it from stop to stop, got everyone extremely excited, explained he merely wished to see if he could drive a train ( answer was yes, indeed ) and did not get arrested. Guessing Harrison arrived back at the 50th PA via this genetic gift.

Thanks so much for taking this kind of time! AND for correcting when the 50th was at Gettysburg- we were told via a relative ( only ) it was 1863, so always just accepted that. Still, very oddly have yet another grgrgrandfather in the 50th just in 1865, arriving there for HIS last few months of the war. Crazy, yes. He'd been in the 6th US Cavalry- mustered out, for whatever reason decided it was not time to go home. His brothers were with the 50th PA. He's George Knarr, and rats, cannot remember which brothers were there- Ben, I think and Ike? He must have decided to just keep them company until the end of the war, too funny! You'd have thought he'd have had enough.

Love details myself but am not at all very good with makes and models of guns, etc., so that's all very awesome to have- very cool! The LoC option, being able to download these at such high res and so HUGE, is a little breath taking, isn't it?
You may want to check Bates' "History of Pennsylvania Volunteers 1861-1865 Vol I" written in 1869, where it does say he was wounded at Spotsylvania on May 12th.
00001311_tif100_gif (2).jpg
 

JPK Huson 1863

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#12
You may want to check Bates' "History of Pennsylvania Volunteers 1861-1865 Vol I" written in 1869, where it does say he was wounded at Spotsylvania on May 12th. View attachment 125183

Hang on- will dig out the reports. The first is an officer's report- the lists sent include severity of those wounded during that day. Gunshot wound, left arm- which follows him all the way through his life. It severed nerves- made the thing progressively just more useless. Must have been hit while raising his own for a shot- the way the ball traveled is straight up his arm, mostly. Ah. Here it is. ( some names besides Schwenk's and Harry's are bolded, no idea why- can't remove the formatting )

FIFTIETH REGIMENT

In this Regiment, two of the companies-A and C-were from

Schuylkill County. On the 16th of May, Captain Schwenk, of

Co. A, wrote to us as follows, from near Spottsylvania Court

House:

Enclosed you will find a list of the casualties of my Company, in the

several engagements since May 5th, when we crossed the Rapidan.

May 6th the Regiment was engaged in the hottest of the fight -

at the Wilderness, and drove the enemy in good style to his rifle pits,

which he was compelled to leave during the night. May 9th Col. Christ's

Brigade fought and whipped the rebels at Ny River on the Spottsylvania

road. The 50th Regiment charged and drove the rebels nearly half a

mile. The enemy, three Regiments, in turn charged, and came within

fifty yards of the Regiment, which repulsed him in disorder, and occupied

a crest of a hill for which we were contending. May 12th there was a

general. engagement at this place, about one-half mile north-east of

Spottsylvania Court House, in which our Regiment made a splendid

charge. We lost heavily.

Firing has just commenced on our right, and I cannot finish, but must

look after my Company. The Regiment in the several engagements lost

at the Wilderness, May 6th, 2 officers wounded, 8 enlisted men killed

and 62 wounded. At Ny River, May 9th. Capt. Burkert was wounded,

6 enlisted men killed and 70 wounded. May 12th, 18 enlisted men killed,

42 wounded and 114 missing, and 2 officers wounded and 4 missing.

Capt. Cleveland has since died.

Respectfully,

SAMUEL SCHWENK, Capt. Co. A.

KILLED-Henry Faust, Simon Reigle.

WOUNDED MORTALLY-Corp. Wm. H. Delcamp, died May 7th, Jacob

Henry, died same day, Conrad Carl, died May 10th.

WOUNDED SEVERELY-Sergt. Benj. Focht, Jackson Bixler, Dart. Hoffa,

Nathaniel Rtickert, Emanuel Swikert, Elias Trautman, Michael Wolfgang,

Daniel Delcamp, John D. Shearer, Augustus V. Schuber, Michael

Wolf, Lewis Zimmerman, Abraham Starr, Nathaniel Stutzman, Isaac

Artz, and taken prisoner, Aaron Ossman, Cornelius Schlegel, Harrison

Walton, Philip Dietrich, Jonathan Hearter, John Zimmerman.

WOUNDED SLIGHTLY-Corp. Geo. Lester, August Weisner, Benjamin

Herman, Joel Kramer, Ilarrison Walton, Isaac Artz, Edward Bixler.

Wm. F. Clark, Peter Fox, Jonathan B. Stutzman, Joel Strohecker, Sam.

B. Wiest, Benj. P. Pinkerton, Patrick Joice, Abraham Schwenk.

MISSING AND PRISONERs-Corp. Uriah Wenerick, Corp. Hiram Strau,

Corp. David Balton, Edward W. Clark, Josiah Saltzer, Dan'l Stein, Hiram

K. Wiest, Daniel Burkley.
 

JPK Huson 1863

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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Joined
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Messages
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Location
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#14
Some regiments evidently did not move their companies around based on seniority. For example, Charles H. Weygant, in his History of the One Hundred and Twenty Fourth Regiment N. Y. S. V., lists the alignment of his regiment at Gettysburg in the original order: B – G – K – E – H – C – I – D – F – A.

Also, the three right companies of the 150th Pennsylvania on July 1 were D – F – A, which, statistically speaking, would favor the original alignment.

I am actually compiling such a list and thus far have 14 examples (usually partial) of Union regiments at Gettysburg. The above two examples are in the definite and probable categories respectively of following the original alignment. Add to this one other probable and two possibles, which accounts for 5 of the 14.

But the other 9, a substantial majority, are clearly in a different order; for instance:
69th Pennsylvania: G – K – B – E – C – H – D – F – A – I (markers on the field)
20th Maine: B – G – C – H – A – F – D – K – I – E (per John S. Pullen)

So really, no one, unless putting in the right research, don't try picking out anyone in a regimental photograph. That's intensive, thank you!
 



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