Tom Green of the Texas Cavalry?

skb8721

Corporal
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Location
New Iberia, Louisiana, on Bayou Teche
I have the original glass-plate negative of the below image and until recently I could say it was a "previously unpublished image," except I gave permission to Donald Frazier to use the image in his most recent book Blood on the Bayou: Vicksburg, Port Hudson, and the Trans-Mississippi. Regardless, I've wondered if this person is not Tom Green of the Texas cavalry? The entire photo (which I'll also post below) shows the staff of either General Richard Taylor or his subordinate Brigadier General Alfred Mouton, and is believed to have been taken in north Louisiana in 1863-64. Note there seems to be a blurry feather coming out of the subject's hat, but maybe not.
jma&da.jpg
 
Here is the entire photo. I can positively ID some of the people in the photo and will do so below the image. . . .

jma&da 2.jpg


Back row, fourth from left, wearing kepi, is General Major (that's his name -- I forget his first name . . . I suppose at some point he was Major Major!).

Front row, first person at far left, in uniform, John Marsh Avery of Avery Island, La. (who was an artillery officer); fourth person from left (in uniform, with hand on chest), his older brother Dudley Avery (who was an infantry officer, wounded at Shiloh, and whose sword and pistols I showed this week elsewhere on CivilWarTalk). I don't know who any of the other people are. Do you?
 
It certainly looks like him, and I believe I've seen either this same image, or more likely another taken at the same time with identification, including Green. You ought to contact the superintendent at Mansfield State Park, who seemed quite knowledgeable when I talked with him and his ranger earlier this month on the past anniversary of the battle. They could possibly help with confirmation of Green and identification of the others.
 
Whether Tom Green or not this is a magnificent photo. I remember wanting to know more about it when seeing it in Blood on the Bayou.

Back row, fourth from left, wearing kepi, is General Major (that's his name -- I forget his first name . . . I suppose at some point he was Major Major!).
That's Gen. James P. Major, commander of a Texas cavalry brigade and later division under Green.
 
It certainly looks like him, and I believe I've seen either this same image, or more likely another taken at the same time with identification, including Green. You ought to contact the superintendent at Mansfield State Park, who seemed quite knowledgeable when I talked with him and his ranger earlier this month on the past anniversary of the battle. They could possibly help with confirmation of Green and identification of the others.

I'll do that!
 
Here's a side-by-side comparison. The left and center images are known images of Green. I can't tell if it's him or not. The man at far right seems to have a cleft in his chin, which is not apparent in the known Green photos. And yet the shape of the head, and the gaunt cheeks, and bags under the eyes look similar or the same. I don't know.

green, thomas 2 comp.jpg
 
Did I scan the original image (the group photo) backwards? I notice now that the rows of buttons run down the left side of their uniforms (their left, not ours), when they should run down the right -- right?
No, that's actually how it should be. I can't recall exactly why but photographs from the era always came out in reverse.
 
I'm not sure it's a chin cleft... could be beard... and the rest is certainly close!

It could also be a spot or flaw in the glass-plate negative. But I'm unsure.

I can't tell if it's him or not: the shape of the head is the same, the nose is the same, the bags under the eyes are similar, the sunken cheeks are exactly the same . . . but the eyes themselves are different, and while all the men in the three compared images have mouths downturned at the corners, the mouths otherwise don't seem entirely the same to me. I don't know. . . .
 
Even if he (the would-be Tom Green) is a different person, I wonder who he was? And if that is a plume in his hat, would not that indicate cavalry? In any event, I wonder who they all were? One of the men I can't ID in the back row is a general (he's the one to the right of General Major -- see below detail*).

If these were, as oral traditional claims, members of Taylor's or Mouton's staff, I think that would narrow it down a bit.

*Wikipedia says "On the upright collar of full generals, lieutenant generals, major generals, and brigadier generals three stars were stitched within a wreath, all embroidered in gold coloring. The center star was slightly larger than the other stars. It was not possible to know which grade of general an officer was by his collar insignia. However, major generals and lieutenant generals wore two rows of nine buttons in groups of three down the front of the overcoat, and brigadier generals wore two rows of eight buttons in groups of two."

jma&da detail.jpg
 
Amazing photo.
The likeness is there, I think that the officer of the first photo posted, was not Tom Green, eyes and mouth are different.
staff.jpg
About this colonel or general, it is a shame that he wears a sack coat, otherwise the button arrangement could give us information on his rank
 
Amazing photo.
The likeness is there, I think that the officer of the first photo posted, was not Tom Green, eyes and mouth are different.
View attachment 134633
About this colonel or general, it is a shame that he wears a sack coat, otherwise the button arrangement could give us information on his rank

Yes, I understand now: those do look like colonel insignia. But he could have been a general or a colonel, as some generals wore the stars in the same manner as colonels.
 
If they are brigade staff officers, and if Dudley Avery is part of the 18th Louisiana (then consolidated) regiment, it may be that we are faced with the Mouton's staff. Could the officer in sack coat be Mouton himself?
The likeness is there, but the photo on the left is of poor quality to compare the features
24mumwz.jpg
 
Here is the entire photo. I can positively ID some of the people in the photo and will do so below the image. . . .

View attachment 134418

Back row, fourth from left, wearing kepi, is General Major (that's his name -- I forget his first name . . . I suppose at some point he was Major Major!).

Front row, first person at far left, in uniform, John Marsh Avery of Avery Island, La. (who was an artillery officer); fourth person from left (in uniform, with hand on chest), his older brother Dudley Avery (who was an infantry officer, wounded at Shiloh, and whose sword and pistols I showed this week elsewhere on CivilWarTalk). I don't know who any of the other people are. Do you?

Amazing photo. I don't recall seeing so many Confederates in a single cased photo before.
 
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